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  • Nationals 2008: August 27, 2008 - August 30, 2008

Author Topic: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club  (Read 97780 times)

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Offline Alex C

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2008, 09:47:52 AM »
Personally I find having an upwind finish line can be a real pain tactically, and if you go through it accidentally downwind it can write off an entire race.

I can understand the problems people have with the downwind finish, but in my experience it has always been pretty obvious. A different sound signal for the first finishers could help.

Alternatively we could have a finish gate at the windward mark to eliminate the finish line obstacle on the downwind leg.

Offline phil_kirk

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2008, 12:42:10 PM »
Thanks for your kind comments Roland. 

I have just looked at the course sheet which I assume must have been created for a seperate open or championships held by the club.  The courses are fine if you sail a semi planing hiking or single wire boat but not if you sail a skiff like us. 

If there is still room to influence the courses used for the event they must fill the following objectives:

The course should be winward leeward course.
The course should not require the crew to count the number of laps
The course should not rely on rescue boats to signal the finish to competitors.
The race should be finished by the Committee boat.

Also
Windward spreader marks are not neccesary  given the moderate size of fleet

given the comments. This really leaves the classic start/finish line 1/3rd the way up the beat.  The course could be shortened when the leader rounds the leeward mark so boats are only required to pass through the finish line at the finish.  Otherwise without the fast scarry moths of last year  i don't think we need any restrictions of a gate up or down wind.

The alternative running finish would use the same course but boats would have to pass through the gate down wind to avoid having to count laps.

Offline Will_Lee

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2008, 02:21:12 PM »
This is my proposed course (this is like the Weston Grand Slam 2007):
 
1) You start between ODM and CB.
2) You leave WM to port.
3) You go between LM and ODM.
4) Repeat 2 and 3 until you get a hooter when you cross the line between LM and ODM.

This way there are few buoys to remember, you don't have to remember which lap you are on, there is choice of leeward mark, everyone finishes near where the start will be, and there are downwind finishes.


                                             WM













                           ODM------------LM------------CB


Did you see this from further up the thread? It complies with your requirements and has some other benefits including being easier to move round if the wind changes and keeping the CB close enough to see what is going on and do the finishing but far enough to avoid 'mating' issues.

My reason for not wanting the 'classic' is that we had some bad feedback about it last year so we should try to address those problems:

1) If you force everyone to go through the gate upwind then it is not a good idea to allow people to go through the gate downwind. The reason we do it like we do is because the 1995 nationals had many near-misses and tactical capsizes to avoid collisions. Feedback from competitors gave us the current situation of insisting on the upwind gate and insisting that people miss it on the way down.

2) If you allow people to miss the gate on non-finishing laps then you are back to having to count laps so you know when to go through it - not popular either.

The proposed system has flexibility both on and off the wind, does not require lap-counting and crucially is an attempt to address the feedback from last year.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 05:15:18 PM by Will_Lee »

roland_trim

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2008, 05:32:48 PM »

                                             WM




                                             ODM--------CB




                                             LM

According to the "least sides of square at 45 degree boxes" the coruse drawn above - deliberately pushing the line to the right still ends up with a gate that is not a killer. Does this compromise on the traditional WL course make sense?

PS Liked the Weston course

Offline Will_Lee

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2008, 06:04:03 PM »
Sorry: Don't understand what you are on about!

roland_trim

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2008, 06:26:37 PM »
Set ODM to be inline with WM and LM. CB further to right. Results in an unbiased line in terms of distance to sail close hauled to the top mark, but biases the left for heading downhill. Page 6 of the coaching book someone gave me.....

MODIFICATION
To sail from ODM to windward mark you obviously can't go dead upwind and the shortest distance/ number of tacks from ODM is the same as from the CB
OR Even
For every unit up the page you move you have to move one unit left or right so the race to the WM is not effected by the bias of the line. All this assumes that you have to tack to make it from the CB to WM!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 08:05:33 PM by Born Slippy »

Offline Will_Lee

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2008, 08:07:38 PM »
I think I see.

The feedback last year was that having to avoid the gate downwind was too difficult if the wind shifted/increased/both.

Moving the line one way or the other makes things better in the event of one direction of windshift, but worse in the case of the other direction. If you went round the top and bore away such that you were nearly pointing at the LM. Your shifted line makes it easier to miss the ODM.
If you went round the top and found that you had to gybe to get to the bottom at all, then you'd have more trouble getting round your shifted line than if it was in the middle.

What is the attraction of a mid-beat line?

Offline Tim Noyce

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2008, 08:11:15 PM »
Right, here we have a Nationals Entry form!


Offline Tim Noyce

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2008, 09:13:04 PM »
I am sorting out the course situation. The courses in the appendix are just a generic list the club use. Thanks for all your input and I have taken on board what people are saying, but it will be sorted soon. I will email everyone a copy of the final SI's as well as upload them on here. But for now, fill in the entry form and get your names down!

Offline Will_Lee

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2008, 10:31:01 PM »
The cheque is in the post!

ghislain_devouthon

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2008, 08:24:24 AM »
Hi, I'll come, here is my entry form.

Due to the incompatibility of the cheque between our countries, tell me how we can consider it as a firm confirmation.

I will definetely assume the 80 £ fees in case of late unpredictable cancellation.

Regards
Ghislain

lucy_lee

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2008, 01:57:03 PM »
We can pay for you Ghislain.

Lucy

Offline Will_Lee

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2008, 02:39:18 PM »
Printed and in the envelope!

Offline phil_kirk

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2008, 12:39:52 PM »
mine's in the post

Offline admin

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Re: Cherub Nationals Pembrokshire Yacht Club
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2008, 09:17:53 PM »
Just made a new topic for anyone looking for a crew or for a sail;

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