E6 Design

[Banshee Ambulance]

seems there has been a lot of destroying of moulds from good designers recently. E6 looks nice... if not quite similar to a 'Banshee'.

It does look similar to a 'Banshee' doen't it. It is a lot more rounded in the forward sections. Looks like a well built plug too.

[phil_kirk]

Wow the E6 is very pointy.  the bow might as well be cut from a sheet of low density foam and covered with 1 layer of carbon it's so thin. that would deal with the first foot of the waterline.

Good luck with the plug paul.  If i had a day free I would offer to help but already committed this weekend.

[john_hamilton]

incredible looking paul

[daryl_wilkinson]

seems there has been a lot of destroying of moulds from good designers recently. E6 looks nice... if not quite similar to a 'Banshee'.

It does look similar to a 'Banshee' doen't it. It is a lot more rounded in the forward sections. Looks like a well built plug too.

yes a finer entry and slightly more pronounced inverted forward sections with similar rounding up to the chines aft. A more extreme version of a Banshee. (The Banshee don't forget was designed to be a safer ship.) This is no unsurprising as David Lee and Kevin have / are / do swap ideas. It's not a criticism either, just an observation.

[kevin_ellway]

Hi all

To end the speculation:

a) The E6 is designed optimised for lower speeds / lower windstrengths than the E6. It has more rocker, lower Cp, lower Ws

b) It is not a more extreme version or development of the Banshee: it has come about from evaluating scores of different hullforms, including those with step chines and non immersed chines. Cherub designs, within a given rule set, will coalesce over time ,  so they will inevitably look similar - look at the Bieker and Morrison 14s for example. It is probably closer to Alex Valling's Nuplex than the Banshee.

c) The differences in drags between any of the modern hulls will be very small, much smaller than the difference that can be made by setting the T foil at the correct angle, trimming the boat and sails correctly. Drag is mostly a function of length, weight and waterline beam and there's not a lot you can do about any of these!

d) This is really for John H - if you speak to Phil K, you will realise just how much putting a new boat on the water costs - and how many zillion man hours it takes. Whilst I'd love you to have an E5/6, my advice would be the same as Pete's - If you've got the cash, go buy Ronin and spend your time sailing - it will place you far further up the race track than building a new boat.

e) the frames are a conformal surface 9mm inside the hull; so the bow will look very skinny until skinned. That said, the E5 looked skinny compared to previous boats - it's just what you get used to looking at.

Cheers

Kevin

[rich_taylor]

Common Paul, lets see some top notch cabinet making going on here. 

I'm putting my money on you stip planking this baby in Western Red with an epoxy glass sheath.  Who knows, if you're careful you could pop off the female tool and may well be able to resurect the plug as a hull. 

I heard the original strip planked 29er somewhere is somewhere in Oz (it would probably last longer than the plastic ones).

[dwlee]

I would agree with Kevin that it looks closer to Nuplex than Banshee and looks like a softer evolution of the E5, but I haven't seen the drawings to confirm or deny.

David

[Banshee Ambulance]

d) This is really for John H - if you speak to Phil K, you will realise just how much putting a new boat on the water costs - and how many zillion man hours it takes. Whilst I'd love you to have an E5/6, my advice would be the same as Pete's - If you've got the cash, go buy Ronin and spend your time sailing - it will place you far further up the race track than building a new boat.

I really think as a class we should be more encouraging. We really need to be promoting home building and keep supporting those who are keen to design and build things as well as sailing. Or else we lose one of the core values of the class. At the same time though, we need to discourage people from making mistakes and starting something they can't finish. It is a tough balancing act.

There is a fantastic ammount of knoledge in the class, and, more importantly a fantistic group of people who are prepared to share it. But there will come a time where we will say "We used to build boats in sheds but its too difficult, takes too long and costs too much." And I don't want that to happen.

I will build a boat and it will take time, cost a lot of money and I will make mistakes along the way. But a man who never made a mistake never made anything. John H: If you know what you are getting into and are doing it to learn and to make and understand and know the costs etc. involved then go for it. But dont do it because you have just seen a shiny thing like Wills boat and said "I want one of those, that will win me races, How can I get one on the cheap?" That is not enough and you will not finish it. If you think that, take Kevins sensible advice and buy Ronin.

 



 
 

[Banshee Ambulance]

Common Paul, lets see some top notch cabinet making going on here. 

I'm putting my money on you stip planking this baby in Western Red with an epoxy glass sheath.  Who knows, if you're careful you could pop off the female tool and may well be able to resurect the plug as a hull. 

I heard the original strip planked 29er somewhere is somewhere in Oz (it would probably last longer than the plastic ones).

You would be 9mm under on each side at the chines for the measurement rules! You might get away with 14 style speed bumps though.

[dave_ching]

Home building is good!
It is alive and well in the class
but like something else I can't quite think of,...
Oh yes! Comedy, it's all about the timming.
We are not saying don't build, just learn a little about How and What before you start.
Having said that, good luck if you want to build.

[rich_taylor]

You would be 9mm under on each side at the chines for the measurement rules! You might get away with 14 style speed bumps though.
[/quote]

Not if you planked it with 9mm cedar and a couple of layer of glass.  When you're done with the buck, turn it over, chop out the mdf sheath with something more exotic and fit frames.  Near identical to Swift Solo build, it would be heavy but drop dead pretty.

[Ratface]

John, if you wish to go ahead and build a boat then go for it.

However can you do efficent repairs to boats without needing assistance from other people? personally i like the idea of building my own boat, but currently feel i've not got enough knowledge to do so, Doing repairs to boats like i am currently is helping me learn things for in the future if i so wish to build. mistakes to a new build could end up being costly.

I however recently have been considering making a 'scale model' cherub (30cm) so i can get the jist of how a home build goes without a huge cost, plus it gives me a learning experience aswell as something that can sit at home and i can be proud of at the end of it.

James

[daryl_wilkinson]

Kevin, just to be clear. I'm not suggesting it is a direct iteration of Banshee, I'm sure it was created through your own endeavour... it was just that when I looked at it there were similarities I found echoed the work that David had done on the Banshee. Which obviously is an iteration of Nuplex. As you say hull shapes will and are converging over time.

[phil_kirk]

To comment on the home build front.
Sarah and I purposly bought a second hand boat first to see if we liked the boat and the class and to learn how to do modifications etc.

Saying that if you have some aptitude for diy, get some practice with the different techniques there is nothing that is beyond the normal persons skills.

Sometimes I asked people for advice and was always grateful for it. Sometimes I figured problems out for myself. But ignore advice at your perill. you will make mistakes so be prepared to have to do some re work.  Importantly, thick three times, measure twice cut once.

I would suggest the first thing to do is to sit down and work out how you are going to put the boat together, hull deck, bulkhead configurations arrangement of racks, beams and strutts and do some drawings.  From that work out the materials you need and the consumables.  You will need some equipment. I would reccomend buying or loaning a vacume pump. Then having a sticky weekend at your place and get some class members and friends to get some of the complicated or large jobs done. You will learn a lot.

[john_hamilton]

guys,
thanks for the advice but i am still building a boat. i do realsie how many gazillion man hours it will take and am not just building it becaue it looks cool (even if it does). I am building it because i want to learn from it and be able to sail a boat i made. i know many of you dont think im experienced enough, but i do know a few people very experienced with carbon, foam, foil design and am pretty confident it will happen. The reason i would never but ronin is that i simply do not have the money in one sum (my cash flow is what will build the new boat, not what i have in the bank at this moment (thats going to a car)) me and digby are bsically working to the same philosophy as phil kirk and sarah.
thanks and i hope i havent insulted anyones opinions
john