Ideas to stimulate home building

[phil_kirk]

My main suggestion was not to compare a jigless or minimal jig design with using a current mould.  Using a mould will be the best option.  the reasoning behind the original post could suggest the logistics and cost of locating a mould, vac pump and the space required to conduct the operation may not suit all builders. The idea was for a one off build to remove the time taken to build complex jigs and perhaps as phil A suggests create a flat pack of foam pannels that could be put together by a moderately experienced amature builder. 

At one extreme this could be a set of templates used to develop the foam pannels and a few frames that help to jig the pannels together. 

The idea was also thinking about the developement of the class. The class is growing but growth is limited by the number of people who can afford a profesional build or who think they are competant enough to self build.  If there was an easier level to enter the class with a new boat and that new boat was competitive, there would be a greater potential for expansion.  this concept would require the kits and some instruction to develop the techniques of each owner/builder (perhaps a long sticky weekend). 

[Phil Alderson]

OK I split out a new topic too. This one is to discuss ideas to stimulate home building of compettitive Cherubs.

When I built Aqua (with no previous boat building experiance) I was a long way from everyone else and I thought the cost of building or transporting a mold would be a problem. I got Andy P at Bloodeaxe to build me a hull shell and then finished it myself. The Shell was not too expensave and knowing that a large part of the boat was expertly built was a confidence boost. Andy also gave me instructions and support during the build.

I think that purchasing a shell is a good starting point for a home build boat, what are other peoples thaughts.

[ross_burkin]

How much is just a hull shell? It's one of my many options...

[daryl_wilkinson]

Between £1000 > £1500. Depends how good you are at negotiation  ( and what you are making it from ) or how hard up your builder is at the time 

Getting a shell is a good option. But don't under estimate how much time finishing it WILL take.

[JimC]

I think that purchasing a shell is a good starting point for a home build boat, what are other peoples thoughts.

Agree completely. Eveything else is really flat panel stuff and straightforward. I've never been able to raise the enthusiasm and confidence for a complete boat, but a shell is straightforward enough. I did Halo like that (nearly twice!) and have just done a Canoe.

[mathew_harris]

so insert stupid question...

is the shell literally that a sort of outer skin that needs all the insides (foam, bulkheads, supports etc) putting in it?  i'm imagining it in the same way as the plastic that an easter egg comes in, or is there a bit more too it?

[ghislain_devouthon]

A white book about "Building a cherub" would be nice with :

- exemples,
- Building steps,
- Timeframe,
- advices,
- materials,
- Common mistakes

it can be a compilation of what we can find on the website

[Phil Alderson]

A shell is typically the hull as taken from the jig so inner skin foam and outer skin

For the white book, we have most of what is required on the website, the main things lacking are material lists costs time scales and to a certain extent mistakes.

The place to start would probably be to create an introduction/index page in sections linking to the existing pages with comments on what needs to be added to the articles and also with links to yet to be created pages.

[mathew_harris]

A shell is typically the hull as taken from the jig so inner skin foam and outer skin

so what actually needs adding to finish off the build?  is this things like false floor, space frame, supports etc or are these or elements of these included?

[Phil Alderson]

A shell is typically the hull as taken from the jig so inner skin foam and outer skin

so what actually needs adding to finish off the build?  is this things like false floor, space frame, supports etc or are these or elements of these included?

Basically you need to put all those things onto a bare shell which would look something like:


You could get whoever built the shell for you to do as much or as little as you wanted.

[ghislain_devouthon]

A shell is typically the hull as taken from the jig so inner skin foam and outer skin

so what actually needs adding to finish off the build?  is this things like false floor, space frame, supports etc or are these or elements of these included?

Bulkheads, frames, deck, mast step, proder, chute, gantry, jib track supports, racks, shroud and forestay plates, rudder cassettes, centerboard case, ... to say the less

Fairing, fairing again, fairing again again ... primer, painting

I just give you an idea of what was NBS planning :

01/11/2006 : starting from a moulf+materials
06/11/2006 : first part of the hull finished (inner skin, foam, outer skin)
01/12/2006 : hull finished

Note if I had a mould built for racks, the hull would have been finished on the 6th november

01/01/2007 : hull + bulheads + cut to appropriate size
01/02/2007 : deck glued + racks extensions
15/02/2007 : gantry on + racks + rudder
01/03/2007 : rudder cassettes + first hull fairing
15/03/2007 : fairing (working close to 2/3 hours/day + WE) + primer finished
17/03/2007 : painting finished
20/03/2007 : first mast try + sails
31/03/2007 : fittings finished (2 complete days)
01/04/2007 : first time on the water

01/01/2010 : boat about to be optimised ;-)


I worked 2 evening / weeks + about 24 h / WE always alone.

The hull by itself was 1/10th of the total amount of time.

[ross_burkin]

Maybe we need to re-think the boat building articles on the website. Perhaps a page titled "Thinking of building?". Then in a similar way to the T-foil system page, have different options but you can click on that method of building to read more a more in depth description (with pictures) showing the basic building process, costs and time involved, pros/cons and examples of previous boats built.

At the moment, if someone wonders onto the site and thinks,

"All this talk about carbon, weave, special foam sounds very complicated." will just write the idea off in there head.

[daryl_wilkinson]

I have been on a campaign of demystification about boat building since I can remember. But at some level building a boat is complicated, not least in the amount of decisions you have make in a huge range of areas, and then bring them all together. But in principle building in foam sandwich is simple. Have a look the videos on the technical pages. (we need more video of hull builds / foam lay-up)

For me, and it is something I have talked about along time ago. I would like to see a DUMMIES GUIDE ( a list of technical words / actions with simple descriptions ) somewhere on the web-site, somewhere prominent actually. :-)

[ross_burkin]

Like this http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub/test/doku.php/encyclopedia?s=encyclopedia 

[Tim Noyce]

I spent some considerable time with some colleagues building that encyclopedia as a method of work avoidance at uni (now look where i ended up, should have done more work!) It's a healthy mix of useful info and banter!