New build in devon.

[Tim Noyce]

Good stuff. 2303 is pretty soft as well and the floor flexes quite a bit when walked on but seems solid enough where I have re-attached the side tanks. My worry is that if I strengthen the floor then something else will give way!

Send me a private message with your details if you don't want to publish them openly.

Where do you do most of your yachting out of? I've been doing foredeck on a UFO 27 out of Darmouth this season for Wednesday evening racing which is excellent fun.

[Jake_holmes]

Plymouth mainly, and hopefully this year some more stuff abroad on a fife replica. If you ever want to get into more yachty stuff i know plently of people who want crew. I sail a GK24 and an  MG RS 34 atm, slow upwind so we need to bully her allot, we do well though. Im going to start crewing on an x332 and an x362 i just need to chat with a mate again. Other than that its really easy finding last minute places for some of the bigger events. haha mine is soft pretty much everywhere and sounds like it cracks everytime you stand on the deck, im sure its just movement *fingers crossed*. I just need to re-glass the transom and fit the P&G and then reglass an area around the starboard shroud where the backing ply has rotten. Ive got some reasonably fancy sails from will on loan so it should go reasonably well. The rudder is looking very short for low wing sailing but we shall have to wait and see. Looks like the newbuild is going to be a banshee built out of carbon possibly with some kevlar bits and should hopefully have the hull started and finished within a few months ready for fitting out and sailing in the winter.

[Phil Alderson]

The Fifes, are quite special, I had a sail on Mariquita when the fife regatta was in Largs last year, and it was completely different from any other boat I have sailed on.

If you were worrying about depth you could always get a short dagger board made up for when you are sailing in shallow venues, a centreboard would be quite a pain to get right and would likely add a lot of weight to the build.

[Jake_holmes]

yeah a short daggerboard sounds like a good idea. I will hopefully be sailing aboard sunshine a schooner built to the fife plans in 2003 so that should be amazing.

[JimC]

you could always get a short dagger board made up for when you are sailing in shallow venues

I'd consider a rectangular "case" and have a semi drop in cassette type arrangement for the foil with a sacrificial foam crash box behind it That way if you did hit something solid then the arrangement could be replaced and there's be very low risk of compromising the watertightness of the real case.  Everything else, board tip, trailing edge, crash box is pretty easy to fix.
The trouble with pivoting boards on any really fast boat is that:-
 - any arrangement that will hold the board down at 20knots is going to be so solid that something will break anyway if you hit the rocks and
 - you'll not be able to lift the board in stromg winds - angling it back very much will make the handling impossible so you'll end up with the board full down all the time no matter how worried you are about the depth...

[Jake_holmes]

I will probably keep the boat in plymouth sound so theres plenty of water. Depth only becomes a problem past the tamar bridge and thats only at low tide so im sure i will be fine most of the time. I will just go with the normal deep daggerboard arangement. Anyway cheers for your helps guys, im off to greece sailing laser 4k's and hobies for a week.

[phil_kirk]

You appear to have a busy summer with all the offshore and inshore sailing.

You may be better waiting for the E5 mould which is tried and tested to become available.  That will save you a lot of time turning the banshee frames into a mould.  And saves all that time fairing.

When you know what you are doing we could put a sticky weekend together and help your build along the road.

You will learn a lot by sailing other Cherubs.

[Banshee Ambulance]

Phil K knows what he is doing and has put together a great boat from the E5 mould. If you want a tried and tested soulution then your best bet would be to hold out for that mould. If you do fancy taking another route, I have frames which you are welcome to. However, it will be a lot of work to build a functional mould from them. That may be your thing but from what you have said, I would guess you want a mould quickly, in which case building a mould from frames probably wouldnt suit you. There are a lot of options open to you and there are several people on this forum who will show you the way.   

[Stuberry]

I notice you mention that you are doing a lot of regattas in France and one in Barcelona. How about collecting the Slug mould from Paris?

[Stuberry]

Hi Jake,

The current moulds in existence I know of are:

E6 - Belongs to Cookie, booked up for many months - 2 boats. Also probably not available to use.
E5 - Belongs to Lucy and me, booked up for many months. It is on the Isle of Wight and is in use for the moment. 1 or 2 boats.
Slug - Belongs to the class. In Paris but available for collection any time (pending the approval of the committee). Not in amazing shape but probably good for another boat after a little bit of work. This is probably your best bet if you want a mould in a hurry. You must join the association first though. It is quite an old design now.

For something more up to date, but needing more work, the Banshee frames offered above might be best. There is not much to choose between the modern narrow hulls.

Can I add to this list the Cardinal Sin moulds that are owned by Rich Taylor. The Cardinal Sin is very similiar to a Slug, but with a little more buoyancy on the back. They are female moulds, designed for a production Cherub that was a candidate at the women's olympic skiff trials.

I don't know if Hartley Laminates ever produced moulds as well?

Info about the Cardinal Sin here: http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub/test/doku.php/designs/cardinal_sin

[daryl_wilkinson]

You appear to have a busy summer with all the offshore and inshore sailing.

You may be better waiting for the E5 mould which is tried and tested to become available.  That will save you a lot of time turning the banshee frames into a mould.  And saves all that time fairing.

When you know what you are doing we could put a sticky weekend together and help your build along the road.

You will learn a lot by sailing other Cherubs.

Phil, don't you think it would be better for the class if there was a good Banshee mould made. I appreciate everyone likes to defend there design choices ( I am after all doing the same thing with this statement ). It's just it would be better for all if there was more choice and more moulds around. At the risk of getting this post taken off the board again. It is a shame that my Banshee mould was not built to the standards that I was expecting when I funded it. So we wouldn't be discussing this.

Considering the way the reasons this boat is going to be built ie; as a business portfolio example, I would have thought it would actually better to build the mould as well. To show a full skill set to potential customers.

Because of the commercial nature of the build you will have to contact David Lee to get his agreement for the use of his lines, but I am happy for you to go ahead as long as the mould was available to class members to use ( after your dad's business has built your boat obviously ). I'm sure David would be happy also.

[Banshee Ambulance]

Phil, don't you think it would be better for the class if there was a good Banshee mould made. I appreciate everyone likes to defend there design choices ( I am after all doing the same thing with this statement ). It's just it would be better for all if there was more choice and more moulds around. At the risk of getting this post taken off the board again. It is a shame that my Banshee mould was not built to the standards that I was expecting when I funded it. So we wouldn't be discussing this.

It would be nice to have another mould in the class, we seem to have reached a maximum capacity for the moulds we have available. Given that both the E5 and E6 moulds are in use for the immediate future. With only two moulds in use this puts a limit on the number of new boats built and thus the expansion of the class. I wish I had finished a mould myself but got cold feet about starting from absolute scratch on a first boat!

Back on topic. If time is tight then it sounds like your best bet at the moment would be the Cardinal Sin mould if you can get hold of it. There is a deck mould as well but you may decide not to use that if you want a deck layout like the most recent boats.

[Tim Noyce]

This is true, not sure what the state of play is with the Cardinal Sin mould (but they are well finished female mould for hull, deck and mast support so this would be the quickest and easiest way to build a boat for certain. These moulds belong to Richard Taylor, I can PM you his details if you are interested.

I personally feel that the deck layout of the Cardinal Sin is excellent, I find Badgers is the most comfortable 05 Cherub I have ever sailed and also the flanges give you a large area for bonding, which makes it easier to build.

[Banshee Ambulance]

The only thing I have noticed about the Cardinal Sin layout is that the racks cant take the shroud loads. All the recent boats have the shrouds outboard on the front rack support. Both have been proven to work so I doubt it is an issue but something to think about. I have not sailed a Cardinal Sin but the deck layout does look user friendly.

[phil_kirk]

Daryl,

I have nothing against there being a banshee mould produced and didn't intend to infer that by my statement.  It is a shame that the original mould didn't survive as we would have had more choice for new members to build from.

My reason for suggesting The E5 mould was that it already exists, it is privately owned and available subject to the owner's consent and that the next boat to come of it will be collected in early June.  It doesn't take long for a professonal builder to turn out a shell so depending on other commitments it could be available in July if a second boat has been ordered.

By that time and with the right skills the frames could be turned into a mould but this would take a lot of time which with the greatest respect I detected that Jake didn't have.