Author Topic: Glyn Charles pursuit race @ Hayling Sat 25th April  (Read 33460 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ross_burkin

  • Guru's Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 602
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glyn Charles pursuit race @ Hayling Sat 25th April
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2009, 01:36:50 AM »
I suspect most, if not all know this already. Self tackers are not very nice in big breeze. They're always powered up and unless you nail the tack (made harder by more challenging conditions anyway!) it's very easy to get stuck half way though. After a capsize the always powered up jib is a pain!

I like this idea of a backing line. Fuzzy might be getting one soon!


Interesting with the 29er though. We would normally hope to beat them but now we see that over a certain windstrength they can continue sailing hard after we start to struggle with more power than we need.


That and they have a VERY floppy masts and the boat is far easier to sail than your custom built high performance machine!


Yep, an early season wake up call and raised a few qu's re boathandling & depowering.


This is interesting and demonstrates why making the right rig choice (not that yours is wrong) is so critical when building a boat. I think the nationals showed us that Ronin is a light/medium wind performer. Is this due to stiffer mast section and this makes it more of a handful when it's windy?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 01:53:44 AM by ross_burkin »
2675 Fuzzy Logic  97/05 rules

Serious plannage in the works...

Debi_Gibson

  • Guest
Re: Glyn Charles pursuit race @ Hayling Sat 25th April
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2009, 09:23:35 AM »
It was an awesome sail :)

Shame we started 9 mins late (with the 29ers and cherub) otherwise i think we could of done rather well - fireballs we are normally up with were all inside the top 10.....but hey, that'll teach hoppy to rig the spin halyard wrong  ;)

Think it was a good wind strength for the fireballs to do well - we managed to keep with all the faster boats we started with, and even caught the K6s who we managed to start after. And we was amusing to be with Pete and Roz at every mark then see them disappear intot the distance to be at the next mark with them lol  :D

Offline Will_Lee

  • Former_Member
  • Guru's Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1290
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Glyn Charles pursuit race @ Hayling Sat 25th April
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2009, 12:06:01 PM »
Smaller sails: Older cherubs were struggling for power much of the time, so the sails tended to be a bit full. We found handling in ballistic winds easier with the flatter and more adjustable bigger sails. On Atum with full cunno on the leech of the main would go floppy like a board sail. We havn't quite managed that with the new boat because the top cringle is too far from the bolt rope and mega cunno causes the top bit of mainsail to get a bit fuller than completely flat. Basically I don't think that slightly smaller sails makes any difference compared to getting the main seriously flat.

Self tackers on a tack: We ease off the jib a lot going upwind when it is ballistic, and especially in the run up to a tack. Stalling mid tack is something we seem to be getting a bit better at not doing, but it does still happen from time to time, especially in a funny short-chop seaway. 

Backing lines: Pasta Frenzy had these, and we considered it, but Lucy can grab the jib car directly. One second is usually enough. I remember sailing Aqua with Cookie one quite windy day at Castle Cove and we couldn't get through the wind. I could not understand it. Later Lucy explained that one of the things she does in big winds is hold the jib car for a nanosecond to help the bow round if the tack is looking messy.

Offline phil_kirk

  • Former_Member
  • Guru's Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1722
  • Karma: +10/-2
Re: Glyn Charles pursuit race @ Hayling Sat 25th April
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2009, 01:20:59 PM »
Sounds like a blast.

We've had tacks which were difficult to get through but that was mainly caused by the sinking feeling at the back end.  It dramatically changes the stability of the boat and it's intention to complete the tack.

We are lucky that Slippery has smaller flat sails and is reasonably managable in some breeze.

Offline phil_kirk

  • Former_Member
  • Guru's Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1722
  • Karma: +10/-2
Re: Glyn Charles pursuit race @ Hayling Sat 25th April
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2009, 01:27:25 PM »
Centrboard damage could start a whole new thread.  We caught something solid on the final day at Weston over easter and were luckily to not be going fast.  no damage to the case but a few chunks out of the board.  The point of impact was 2cm above the tip so we nearly missed it.

it's definately worth having a strong case and a weak point in the board that can be repaired more easily.

roland_trim

  • Guest
Re: Glyn Charles pursuit race @ Hayling Sat 25th April
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2009, 01:57:10 PM »
The pressed shackle fitted to the Bow of Born Slippy chose the force 5 at buoy 23 on the Medway to elongate this weekend. Solid white caps, wind with tide. Had an awesome ride down to the bottom mark then found everything had gone floppy.
On the several miles tacking back against a 6 knot tide to the club with next to no rig tesnion we concluded that we can easily depower the big sails.

Step 1 - Make them very flat.
Step 2 - Let off some uppers.
Step 3 - Let off the kicker LOTS.

We mamnged the trip home single wire with a set of sails that fully measure!

Offline andy_peters

  • Class member
  • Guru's Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
  • Karma: +23/-1
Re: Glyn Charles pursuit race @ Hayling Sat 25th April
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2009, 02:39:42 PM »
Interesting reading the comments about tacking - we have found this the biggest challenge (so far) in our limited cherubing.  Unless our technique dramatically improves we will be sailing a diamond shaped windward leward course.  We spent saturday RS200 sailing at Bough Beech.  More gusts and shifts than you could shake a stick at - perfect for 200's but I wouldn't have relished it in a cherub.

Re the comment regarding Ronin's performance, I suspect our boat will be similar in that the rig is based on a  tree trunk and will be difficult to depower but quite speedy in light/medium.  I suspect the question of speed in a breeze will be academic anyway for quite some time.

Offline ross_burkin

  • Guru's Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 602
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glyn Charles pursuit race @ Hayling Sat 25th April
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2009, 02:56:58 PM »


Step 1 - Make them very flat.
Step 2 - Let off some uppers.
Step 3 - Let off the kicker LOTS.


Surely lots of uppers flattens off the top of the sail? I guess that letting of uppers lets the mast bend more?

I found that letting the sail out does the trick as well.
2675 Fuzzy Logic  97/05 rules

Serious plannage in the works...

Offline neal_gibson

  • Apprentice Guru
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • sending it
    • Storrar Marine
Re: Glyn Charles pursuit race @ Hayling Sat 25th April
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2009, 09:10:52 PM »
Ross your right in the thought that more uppers does flatten the sail but it also stiffens the mast up as well meaning the leech doesnt flick open, in really windy stuff we only have enough caps on to stop the mast going forwards
2644 Suicide Blonde

The Northern ONE
Resident Sailmaker

Damage count so far this season
1) RS Feva mast easy
2) Cherub Main Fixed
3) VW BORA Gone forever bugger
4) One cherub boom Debi does ass damage fixed now.

Offline gav_sims

  • Former_Member
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Glyn Charles pursuit race @ Hayling Sat 25th April
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2009, 10:34:32 PM »
It's called a self-tacker but we never left the jib sheet alone apart from gybing.
In big breeze I would pullon as much cunningham as I could on Mango (32:1 purchase, I ran out of strength before I ran outof adjustment.  Make sure you trust you head attachement point and tack eye). Kicker was on tight upwind, this gave us control of the main leech and gave you power and pointing with a very light mainsheet (the helm took mainsheet on Mango).  Centreboard was raised (Max about a foot up so it just cleared the kicker, anymore and you would slip sideways after a tack very easily).  Jib sheet always eased in a tack, the windier the further it was eased.  Crew normally first out squeezing jib on as weight went on the wire.  Helm quickly followed allowing jib to be set (luff required as jib sheet load very high with 2 on the wire) and main to be sheeted on as needed.  We always kept out weight forward as much as possible as sinking the back end tends to stick you in irons.  Crew was always alert and ready to back the jib (on strawberry I had backing lines running from the jib car to each chainplate, on mango you could just grab the car).  We had fixed uppers with the leeward one going very slack when cunningham was on.  Kicker and cunningham eased before the bear.  Cunningham eased to make sure kite loads taken by the uppers and not the cunningham.
I didn't find the '97 rules rig easier than the '05.  When its very windy the smaller sails enable you to stay out in just that bit more.... but those were never conditions that races were held.  The bigger kites made it easier.

Roza

  • Guest
Re: Glyn Charles pursuit race @ Hayling Sat 25th April
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2009, 01:43:32 PM »
Boat handling is definately key to getting thru the tacks, we were particularly bad at it this weekend, but in the past we did get the hang of it after a windy session and several swims, but lack of time in the boat will always come back and bite you. Part of the trouble is is Pete can't play the jib cleat at its current position (to be changed I am promised) , and we were finding that if we just threw it thru the tack the jib in was enough to blow us over. In the end we were getting thru by as we went into tack I had to drop the main mid tack. lean forwards to back the jib, then let it off enough to not pull us over then take it with me to get out on the wire and pull the main back on at same time. Not ideal! and i admit i might have muttered a couple of colourful words. Bit of kicker ease going into it helped too apart from faff of then having to get it back on again but its not like i had anyother bits of string to look after at that point.

All in all though apart from getting munched parts of it were great fun, just more practise required.