Sails

[peter_barton]

Attached pics of Hyde's latest 2008 Cherub offering. Very exciting!

Slightly shorter top batten but a straighter leach (my original is 'indented' in the top half of the leach)

[Debi]

They look good pete.

Straight leech....hmmmm, not bad thinking ....finished the pattern for our main earlier    so hopefully will be marking out and sticking it on monday


Will put some pics of our new jib up over the weekend - sailing with it last saturday, and it seemed to have a lot of power - think hoppy was happy with it. will get pics up asap

[roland_trim]

I'm just impressed the Pete's new sails pic also includes the buggy.

Only shame is that Kate will probably be a better sailor than the rest of us before she can walk

[daryl_wilkinson]

(my original is 'indented' in the top half of the leach)

thought so... did they blade too early?

[peter_barton]

Daryl,
Sorry for late reply - I did not notice your post.

My understanding is that an American I14 sailor was very succesful with an 'indented' or 'concave' leach and Hydes developed that. The theory is that vortecies/turbulence/drag (whatever the right term) are more concentrated at the corner ie the tip of the square top rather than coming off the whole leach.

There is only a tiny difference between my last years and this years Hydes which is 30mm less on the square top which leaves the leach dead straight rather than indented.

Regarding blading early this seems to me to be a problem/benefit - lets say 'function' - of square tops. I was finding it hard to use too much kicker in the medium winds at the nationals; more kicker produced more power rather than being a depowerer, I guess over say 20 knots we would start to ease it to blade again which would depower. (The Cherub is my first square top experience and there is definitaly more to be learnt here!).

Peter

[ross_burkin]

Dave Ching said the very same thing about kicker when he had a look at Hoppy's new sails on Atum.

[peter_barton]

Hydes have a very discounted winter sails deal - Just checking that nobody misses it in case it is of interest. If I needed a new suit I would jump at it! The beauty of not having to buy sails via Laser or RS 's mark up, very refreshing!

Go to their latest release at
www.hydesails.com/default.asp?nid=%7b9FF4E964-BD22-476A-BF35-70EA7EE2FF6B%7d&page=News ,
and dont miss clicking on the 'winter deals' tab at the bottom (I nearly missed it!).

Toby has confirmed that we qualify for what they call the 'one design' deal giving 20 & 50% discount, the smaller 'racing sails' 20 & 30% discount is for yachts (and it is obviously fair & right that they should sub us!).

Basically in a nutshell - A suit of Hydes Cherub sails are currently;

Mainsail - £564
Jib - £223.25
Spinnaker - £493.50
Total - £1281
All prices are inclusive of VAT

but they have a winter offer which is gigantic; order before end Nov an you get 20% off the most expensive sail and 50% of the others, therefore a suit is;

Mainsail - £451
Jib - £112
Spinnaker - £247
Total - £810

on top of this they are offering a further 5% for payment before Chrimbo making it;

Mainsail - £428
Jib - £105
Spinnaker - £235
Total - £768 for a suit of 3

I think that is bloody cheap for a latest version high performance suit of sails as per what I was using at the Nationals!

Peter

[daryl_wilkinson]

Thanks Peter. that's really interesting. I was thinking about the turbulence at the top batten and was thinking of a ellipse top corner on the square head on my sails, to try and manage what I guessed would be turbulence caused by the two surface edges meeting as well as the batten. It is a area that Interests me because of my kite design / business days. 

[daryl_wilkinson]

Hydes have a very discounted winter sails deal - Just checking that nobody misses it in case it is of interest. If I needed a new suit I would jump at it! The beauty of not having to buy sails via Laser or RS 's mark up, very refreshing!

Go to their latest release at
www.hydesails.com/default.asp?nid=%7b9FF4E964-BD22-476A-BF35-70EA7EE2FF6B%7d&page=News ,
and dont miss clicking on the 'winter deals' tab at the bottom (I nearly missed it!).

Toby has confirmed that we qualify for what they call the 'one design' deal giving 20 & 50% discount, the smaller 'racing sails' 20 & 30% discount is for yachts (and it is obviously fair & right that they should sub us!).

Basically in a nutshell - A suit of Hydes Cherub sails are currently;

Mainsail - £564
Jib - £223.25
Spinnaker - £493.50
Total - £1281
All prices are inclusive of VAT

but they have a winter offer which is gigantic; order before end Nov an you get 20% off the most expensive sail and 50% of the others, therefore a suit is;

Mainsail - £451
Jib - £112
Spinnaker - £247
Total - £810

on top of this they are offering a further 5% for payment before Chrimbo making it;

Mainsail - £428
Jib - £105
Spinnaker - £235
Total - £768 for a suit of 3

I think that is bloody cheap for a latest version high performance suit of sails as per what I was using at the Nationals!

Peter

And there was me thinking it was just me getting that deal!!!!!!! 

[peter_barton]

Daryl,
Too different schools of thought there.
the other (my understanding) is - if drag exists, concentrate it in one place with a pointy (rather than curved) square top.

An interesting start line pic of this years I14 Nationals shows about 9 with square tops and 6 with round tops so quite a mix -  but I understand (?) there are more squares at the front.

P

[daryl_wilkinson]

I was thinking more like this...

[kevin_ellway]

There is a lot of misunderstanding about square / rounded tops. The most important thing is that the sail is cut with a planform, twist and camber to achieve a particular spanwise loading. There is no unique solution to this. If the main top is bigger, then you can have more twist and / or a flatter section than if the main had a smaller top. The influence on drag of whether the top is squared off or rounded is minimal. This is why you can look at 14s, 18s etc and see sails of different planforms all of which perform well.

Clearly the Hydes perform well, and at those prices, they represent really good value. It will be important, though, to make sure that the mast and sail match in terms of luff round. Pete's mast is a lot stiffer at the top than say, the CTech, so a sail for the CTech would need more round higher up the luff.

[ross_burkin]

Pete, Ronin uses a Superspars' mast, correct?

[daryl_wilkinson]

As mine is.

My thinking behind rounding the corner is to allow a minimal amount of movement in the drag concentration. As nothing is sailing is steady state. Obviously it is given that the sail is cut correctly for the mast etc...

[simon_jones]

As we are in the market for sails at the moment. Are the hydes suitable for a CTech mast? would they make the luff curve to measure?