Author Topic: blonde's mast  (Read 4190 times)

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Offline deefender1098

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blonde's mast
« on: November 08, 2013, 01:28:00 PM »
I'm sure most of the active cherubers on here are aware that blonde broke its mast at the inlands and we have only just got around to starting to fix her up, however after separating the two mostly departed bits of carbon i am unsure weather what is left in front of me is by design or a dead mast, it looks like the outer skin and inner core is ok to be repaired but between the outer carbon and the inner glass tube there is a lot of what appears to be dry unidirectional carbon, im unsure as to weather this is a de lamination or simply the intended construction method of the mast, any help would be appreciated and hopefully we will have her seaworthy soon

Offline Phil Alderson

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Re: blonde's mast
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2013, 02:40:46 PM »
Can you post any pictures.
Broken thick laminates, particularly unidirectional can look very dry.
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Offline Tim Noyce

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Re: blonde's mast
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2013, 03:26:24 PM »
Any chance you could post a pic of the break? What looks like dry uni's are probably actually ok, just due to the break they normally break up and look pretty horrendous.

You mention a glass tube? Is this just that the internal skin is slightly brown/mustard colour compared to the outside one? I remember this from when I extended mine over christmas.

Doing the repair is quite an easy task, the key as with everything is the prep. The more time and care you spend doing the prep, the better the appearance of the final result.

The method I have used to great success recently is as follows:

Step 1: Get a piece of glass weave with the dimensions of about 40cmx30cm, and wet out a single layer and let it go off. Cut it into a neat square and sand up both sides.

Step 2: Neaten up both of the broken ends of the mast to remove any dodgy straggly bits of mast and with an angle grinder/orbital sander rough up both of the outside walls of the mast, don't be shy here, go to town on it and remove some layers of carbon.

Step 3: Using the rectangle of glass which you have already laminated as a core, you will bond this inside the 2 lengths of mast to make it one piece again. I've found the best method for this is to paste a layer of bog (epoxy mixed with a blend of fillers) inside the ends of the tube all over the inside wall. Try and cover the wall as far up as your glass 'tube' will reach. Align the 2 bits of mast and tightly roll up the piece of glass to form a tube.

Carefully insert this into the mast and then when you let go, it will spring open and neatly stick itself to the inside wall of the mast. You can wiggle it round a bit to ensure that the mast is straight, and also that the overall length of the mast is the length which you require. (don't be worried if you can see the glass tube still, you will rebuild the gaps with carbon later). The main thing here is that you have the mast straight and the track aligned as best as you can. I normally clamp some long straight planks to the mast in order to keep it straight at this stage, and if possible you can wedge something in the track to make sure that both the top and bottom are aligned nicely so the sail will still feed. Leave this to go off properly.

Step 4: At this stage, your mast should be straight and one piece. The bond is strong enough to move it about as long as you are careful not to bash it on anything. The next step is to further neaten up the break. The aim here is to remove the carbon in a tapered fashion. At the centre of the break you will be down to the glass, and then taper it out so that you have undamaged outer wall about 30cm either side of the break. This allows you to rebuild the unis in tapered layers so you don't end up with a ridiculously overbuilt lump either side of the break. The neater the taper, and the more time you spend doing this bit, the better the end result will be.

Step 5: Cut your uni directional carbon. I would guess that you will probably need 4 layers of 300g carbon unis on this break in total, plus a finishing layer of weave to add some hoop fibres.

Layer 1: 300g UD Carbon 15cm long (7.5cm either side of the break)
Layer 2: 300g UD Carbon 30cm long (15cm either side of break)
Layer 3: 300g UD Carbon 45cm long (22.5cm either side of break)
Layer 4: 300g UD Carbon 60cm long (30cm either side of break)
Layer 5: 200g Weave Carbon 70cm long (35cm either side of break)

From experience, it can be a good idea to mark out on the tube the outer edges of the carbon for each layer to aid you getting it central to the break. Once you have the first layer down it can start being quite difficult to see where the middle is. Also, when you cut your layers, it is advisable to not cut them square, but to taper the ends so that the end of each layer of reinforcement isn't square to the tube.

Depending on how neat your first 4 layers of UD are, you can either go straight ahead and put the weave on in one hit, or leave the weave off and consolidate as per step 6, and then back and put the weave on last as a vanity layer once you have sanded it back and tidied it up a bit if it is looking messy.

Step 6: This layup needs to be consolidated. Depending on what you have got to hand, heat shrink tape gives the neatest and easiest finish but you need to be a bit careful not to crush the glass tube inside. Previously, I have always just wrapped it up in peel ply pulling it as tight as reasonably possible and then wrapping the whole thing in brown parcel tape. Parcel tape does shrink a small percentage using a hair dryer so attack it with your mum/wifes/girlfriends when they are not looking. Then leave it for a good 24 hours to go off. Might be a wise idea to re-clamp your straight edges to it to make sure it comes out looking more like a mast than a banana too.

Step 7: Remove the peel ply / tape and check your handy skills. At this point, your mast should be basically fixed. Some sanding and neatening up might be required depending on how vain you are feeling. If you have any voids you can sand and fill them, and add an additional layer of weave on top of this if you are going to clear coat it all. (of if you didn't put the weave on in the first hit, tidy it up and add it now).

Step 8: If you have laminated around the mast track you will need to cut a new slot in it using a hacksaw, and then get a piece of sandpaper inside to smooth it all back so that your sail doesn't get damaged next time you use it.

Step 9: Go out sailing again! Woo!


(I have written this from memory, but have repaired one CST mast using this method, and also extended the RS600 mast on 2648 in order to replace the stump. Both laminations have been done outside in a garden and are all still in one piece, so it is a tried and tested method :-) If anyone else can spot any glaring errors then please shout as I might have missed something silly)

Offline Clive Everest

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Re: blonde's mast
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 03:56:55 PM »
Hi Alex,
I think that your mast is one of the later Angell RS600 masts. They were tying very hard to get the costs  down on these.
They were buying pultruded base tubes and then turning them into masts by putting tips and tracks on them.

The pultruded tube had a wound inner glass layer. (it was actually pull wound).
The glass layer was intended to allow the use of Aluminium stump sleeves and an aluminium joining sleeve at the hounds to take rivets for the hound fitting.
The Glass layer provided some electrical isolation and reduced the corrosion on the Aluminium. Not a great tech solution but they were being pushed very hard on price.
The rest of the tube was all UD.
The track was made from 12mm OD pultruded tube filleted on.
A braided carbon sock was then put over the whole lot.
This is a good construction as the radial fibres on the inside and the outside keep all the UDs in column.
I am pretty sure that the pultruded tubes used vinylester resin to keep the cost down.
These do not bond the fibers as well as epoxy.
During the break the fibers will have been ripped out of the resin and will look very dry.
The pulltruded tubes are not the highest quality carbon tubes as you are now unfortunately able to see.
You should still be able to repair as described.
You can use a bit of 2" tube to sleeve the repair. This can be Al as there is the glass inner layer.
A bit of broken laser top mast would do the job.
Let me know if you need an off cut of the track tube.
I can probably also find a section of carbon tube that could be used as a sleeve for the repair.

Good luck.

Clive.


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Offline deefender1098

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Re: blonde's mast
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2013, 05:20:42 PM »
thanks for the help, hopefully the pics should be attached, from what i'm hearing the fraying of the broken carbon isn't an issue, i'm just being a bit tentative, i dont like the idea of throwing money into carbon on something that isn't repairable and i got a bit worried when what i had infront of me looked questionable, but if its just the way the unidirectional carbon breaks ill order some stuff and see what i can do,

also would it be a good idea to remove the soft fibres and instead wrap the tube im sticking down the middle with carbon to make up the length, its complete guesswork on my part but it doesn't seem like a great idea to be leaving the soft stuff in the middle of the mast??

Offline stom

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Re: blonde's mast
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2013, 11:01:23 AM »
Do you know the sticky weekends at the end of the month?  It might be worth bringing the mast down to that if you've not had much experience of working with composites.

The only other advice I can see that's missing is when the resin is curing it needs to be kept between 15 and 50 degrees.  Anything outside of this and you won't get good mechanical properties from it.

Offline Steve_scott

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Re: blonde's mast
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2013, 04:48:15 PM »
I can't comment on normal mast construction but I'd pulled apart more carbon samples than I care to think about and investigated a few carbon bike frame failures.  IMO, those fibres look waaaay to dry to me...  Assuming the failure was gross overload, the fracture surface should be brittle and sharp.  If you've had a progressive fatigue type failure, you could start to break down the resin around the fibres but I've never seen anything quite like that. 

I'd be asking some questions about the quality of the remaining laminate before I started to spend money repairing it

Offline phil_kirk

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Re: blonde's mast
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2013, 09:35:16 PM »
Sorry i wasn't at the inlands. Is the break below any shrouds and spreaders.  If so it is easy to repair the tube slightly longer and trim down as required.  If the mast ends up a little short the shrouds will have to be adjusted as well.
When our mast broke the damage extended further from the break than on yours so it is possible that there has been some kind of fatigue or impact occuring at the break point.

I would certainly cut the damaged ends off to avoid having areas of de-lamination within the repair.
It is also worth tapering the ends of tubes from the outside by lots of sanding and staggering the edges of each layer of the repair.

I like Tim's idea of rolling a sheet of glass but if you can get a tight fit of a tube sleave that will give continuous hoop fibers on the inside of the repair. If you can't get a tube to fit exactly and it is too big you can cut a slit down the length and squeeze it a bit like Tim's glass sheet.  The tube sleave can be two layers of carbon weave. If you have no tube offcuts to use you can make a sleeve around the end of the mast but will have to slit it.  Nick Bubb and Pete Cumming repaired the carbon mast of their 30 foot trimaran in castle bay with this method with a little helm from the locals in castle Bay on Barra, outer Hebrides.  We only saw Pete Goss and Paul larsen in this race because they broke the seacart 30 trimaran near the same place.  Barra must have been out of carbon after that.


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Re: blonde's mast
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2013, 09:44:49 AM »
My thoughts (for what it's worth):
-Break is below the goose neck.
-Mast is Blonde's - it has done more 20 knot reaches with two fat lumps hanging off it than most boats have seen the water.
-Break occurred in a gust of about 30 knots with 3 sails up. Nose of Cherub found water and stopped, sadly the mast and rig wanted other things and loaded up.
-Repair if this mast s not a big or expensive job and replacing it will cost you more.

If it were my mast I would follow Tim's approach and repair it ASAP. Yes you will be carrying some fibres around as passengers after the repair, but the effect on performance will be negligible and the extra weight is very near the boat.

Note : If the shock wave energy dissipated when it went bang has broken the mast elsewhere then it will break again further up after a sail or two. At this point it will be a very good time to call Peter Barton or talk to people at the sticky weekend to work out what replacements are out there.

Offline deefender1098

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Re: blonde's mast
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2014, 12:13:03 AM »
Well after a few months of its crew being broken and what is being claimed as AWOL the blonde is near to being masted again, I wasn't going to put anything on the thread in the failure of anything being done for a long time. I'm sure some people have boats finished in the time it has taken me to get anywhere with this!! Nevertheless the forum seems fairly quiet so i thought i may as well give this a whirl...

After a long time of attacking fur with a belt sander we finally found something that looked like carbon, quite a bit further back than i thought so it was decided that it was best to just straighten up the ends leaving a 6" gap between the two pieces, new plan needed l so it was decided to take as an opportunity to get the mast straight before we get it strong, the  rolled up glass panel trick worked but it still allowed a bit of wobble so another layer of glass and some unidirectional carbon went on. Almost instantly an unfortunate incident involving a crippled crew tripping over and knocking said mast occurred requiring a trip back to hospital.... upon arriving home with a big phew no damage done it was soon noticed there was a 10mm bow in the now hardened mast with the bottom part pointing bow-ward, maybe there was damage

more sanding and then an "incision" in the aft fibres we had just added allowed the mast to be pulled back into line and then a bit more carbon to hold it straight and we had a carbon pole ready to be made strong again... I'm going to be fairly blunt about it we haven't been brave with the dry as you dare in the layup thing... it got fairly soaked but seeing as this is the first heavy loading laminate we've worked on we played it safe, boring i know!!! All I can say is whoever invented peel ply deserves a medal!!! with peel ply and heat shrink tape in place and several hours curing later and here we are... a pole that looks strong now its just a waiting game until the filler arrives, guess who didn't realise they had ran out!! and then we can get the sail track on and re fit her out, we even decided to give the other end of the mast a modification to allow the main to be put on or taken off from the top of the mast as well...
Can people stop putting up posts that encourage boat related projects, between them and me finally doing some significant boat work i may get ideas that i wont be able to finish/do a decent job of/afford!!!

without a crew to sail her it is unlikely to get sailed before Rutland but we will try to get her rigged up in the back garden as a check over but that's assuming the weather plays ball, judging by the forecasts not likely. At this point id like to say a big thanks to any and all who gave advice chances are i would still (somehow) be scratching my head trying to figure out where to start adding carbon and how much to put on!! it was all well appreciated and hopefully I've done it all justice and it will  be a trouble free fix


Offline simon_jones

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Re: blonde's mast
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2014, 08:57:27 PM »
It's looking good. See you at Rutland.

Offline Tim Noyce

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Re: blonde's mast
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2014, 07:24:17 AM »
Looks very tidy that. The proof will be in the pudding but sounds and looks like you did everything right so should be fine! Very nice.