Author Topic: Buying a cherub - some questions?  (Read 12025 times)

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hobbit

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Buying a cherub - some questions?
« on: March 31, 2008, 10:42:37 PM »
Hi,

I am looking at buying a Dog Cherub and sailing it with my crew out of felpham in Bognor.

Questions would be -

Does anyone sail near here if so I may come to your club, or does anyone have a boat near Chichester for me to have a look at and possibly a blast in?
Are we too heavy - total crew weight about 155kg
Are these boats going to break my wallet like a 14 or a 49er?

Reason for wanting one is I want a fun quick exciting boat that makes me come back crying either with pain or with joy - hope that makes sence!

Any general banter would be helpful

Offline Tom K

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Re: Buying a cherub - some questions?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2008, 11:50:31 PM »
I am based at Weston SC, but sadly wont be able to sail until mid june after my exams. If im still about then you are welcome to come over and have a sail in 'Dangerous Beans' 2673.

Regarding your weight, ive always sailed at the lighter end of the spectrum so aren't best placed to answer your question, that said I am aware of a few teams who are over 155kg.

Regarding cost, a custom built Cherub will cost far less than a new 49er or i14, and if your Cherub breaks you can easily fix it yourself.

Regarding a Dog, there are only 4. I regularly sailed mine before I got 2673 and got a good nationals place in her. To the right home, she can be for sale. I've PMed you the details.

mathew_harris

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Re: Buying a cherub - some questions?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2008, 09:18:41 AM »
about the weight, i was out in Sweet Dreams last weekend with a 15m2 upwind sailplan and we (easily combined weight of 160kgs) were cruising very nicely, i think as long as you're realistic and accept that you're not going to be twinning as soon as other boats and in the lighter stuff you will be a little bit at a disadvantage its fine.  I think most people on here would agree that to a large extent in the first year or so binning it in (and boat handling to stop it) is going to be a bigger factor in doing well in racing than a few extra kgs dangling over the side.  I know that i've taken the second string off mine in less than a 4 to stop me being tempted, but it still planes well upwind with our lard over the side.  And as the wind pics up you may be thankful of the extra pies. 

Offline Will_Lee

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Re: Buying a cherub - some questions?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2008, 09:59:30 AM »
Hi Hobbit,

155kgs is towards the heavy end, but don't forget that once you are powered everyone goes the same speed anyway. You are lighter than the third placed boat at last years nationals. Being heavier only costs you when sub powered, and being bigger means you can keep sending it when others are backing off due to being knackered!
 
Will




 

ghislain_devouthon

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Re: Buying a cherub - some questions?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2008, 11:05:54 AM »
I'm often sailing at 155kl with a 2005 rules Cherub and it is OK.

It is more comfortable to be ligher but I didn't really noticed speed issue because of that. Actually a ligher crew is faster twin trapezing.

Offline phil_kirk

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Re: Buying a cherub - some questions?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2008, 01:29:09 PM »
being near the lighter end too but sailing the Dog SLippery when wet I would say that we plane quite early due to low rocker and quite a large planing area. These aspects would help the hull support a larger crew and plane at reasonable speeds.  All cherubs suffer in light winds so all are equal and as Will says once your planing and over powered everyone is equal again.  The transition from displacement to planing mode and single to twin wiring will be when the lighter crews are favored.

iain_christie

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Re: Buying a cherub - some questions?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2008, 06:02:08 PM »
You are lighter than the third placed boat at last years nationals. Being heavier only costs you when sub powered, and

That will be us then!

Basically we sail like this...tomorrows forecast in knots is inversely proportional to the quantity of lager and kebabs consumed tonight.  So, for example, if the forecast is 5 knots, Tom and I will eat at least 2 kebabs each and probably 10 pints of lager.  That way, we can have a lie in nursing our hangovers and say that we need to repair our oscillating flange gasket or whatever we have chosen to pretend we might have broken so we don't need to go sailing in conditions that are better suited to observing the floating about from the bar.

However, if it's 20 knots, it's Horlicks and bedtime as we will want to be on form to kick some windy ass the next day.  the only time that this rule is overruled is if the forecast is over 30 knots, in which case we get into competition drinking mode, in the hope that either racing the next day will be binned, or if it's not, we'll still be too pissed from the night before to worry about the whole dying thing and think that a port end flyer might be "a bit of a laugh".

In all seriousness the boats are all so diverse that it's not just like plonking a heavy crew into a one design with the inevitable results...yes you might be a bit slower in the light stuff but you will more than make up for this with decent boathandling and tactics, and you'll go really well in breeze.

Boat setup can help too...my new boat will have another barn-door mainsail and a huge daggerboard and a big T-foil.

Do it!!!!

hobbit

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Re: Buying a cherub - some questions?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2008, 07:52:49 PM »
Guys,

Cheers for all the info given, very useful. I have already decided to get a cherub just trying to iron some things out in my head before getting a boat.

All in all really looking forward to going drinking - sorry sailing - and learning how to sail something other than a yacht!

sure i learnt in something small and tippy once upon a time!!!

Nick

mathew_harris

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Re: Buying a cherub - some questions?
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2008, 05:11:11 PM »
...my new boat will have another barn-door mainsail and a huge daggerboard and a big T-foil.

On a slight sidestep are these better for heavyweights? 

Offline Will_Lee

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Re: Buying a cherub - some questions?
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2008, 05:52:10 PM »
Well....

1) Mainsail: Possibly, but if that area is there at the expense of jib area it will cost you a biut of heavier air performance.

2) Long board: Probably: This swaps heavy airs speed for light airs speed. Also better ergonomics as you get trapezing sooner. The moment you are flat out, you'd probably be going better with a shorter board though.

3) Big T foil: Probably: Again, the bigger your t foil, the better you are likely to go in the 5-10 knot region but slower when going faster (basically downwind) and slower when going slower. I think this means that if you are heavier, a slightly bigger T foil may be better - but don't go crazy!

iain_christie

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Re: Buying a cherub - some questions?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2008, 10:03:57 AM »
My theory is this...Suicide Blonde had very full sails with a big roach and there was enough "grunt" (as Steve Irish put it) to get you out early and keep you out longer in lighter airs.  Tom and I had a go on the Daemon and we were suprised how twitchy it was in the lulls with both of you having to come in v fast if you did not want a windward swim.  That said the area split of the new boat will have much more in the jib than we did in SB.  Whilst I agree that smaller flatter less draggy sails would be faster in big breeze, "there ain't no substitute for lard" and we could always get SB to absolutely fly in the windy stuff!

Board...it's huge...if it's too big we can cut some off it, however although I doubt we'll do a gybing board yet, there is a very strong possibility that we will put in one of the lifting systems that some of the 14s are now using that allows them to raise the board downwind when going quick, and with a temple vang there should be plenty room for this.

T-foil...just going on the rather simplistic theory that you need bigger wings to lift a heavier aircraft all other things being equal!  I'm still leaning towards a foil half way up the rudder but we'll see...

Offline Will_Lee

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Re: Buying a cherub - some questions?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2008, 10:20:32 AM »
Yes, a higher T foil may be better for the heavier crews among us. (more upward flow behind the transom = more to gain from a higher placed T foil)

We have gone for one on the bottom, but do not think that means I reject half way up ones: I don't! We v nearly did a half way up one, but decided to stick with what we know for now. I have drawn out a half way up one and we may make that too.