Muscle boxes for kicker's

[daryl_wilkinson]

Any of the other woody owners using a Muscle box for a kicker purchase system? Experiences?

[Tim Noyce]

I have a cantilever style arrangement on mine, as you can probably just about see in this photo. I don't have any more showing it though.



We used to fit muscle boxes on foredecks of Wayfarers in place of chocks. Not really sure you'd get enough travel in it for a kicker to make it worthwhile. What is wrong with the standard kicker arrangement? You don't need as much on the older boats, I just wang on the mainsheet when head to wind and basically take the slack out with the kicker on my system!

[daryl_wilkinson]

Sorry I'm not putting a Muscle box on the 2619, it's what it has. Looks like from new. And yes there's not much travel in it. Hence I was asking what experiences people had had. To keep sailing time to max I was thinking of adding a light wind strop with a block and 'v' cleat purchase on the end of the wire cable that goes from boom to M box for a little extra throw.

[daryl_wilkinson]

you can just see a wire to boom. That's about max out kicker.

[Neil C.]

We had a drum and roller system on 2534 which worked quite well, although winding turns on or off the drum to get you into the correct range of movement was moderately hazardous to fingertips. I've put a dyneema cascade system onto 2631 which is alright, but again lacks a bit of range.

[phil_kirk]

we have a 16:1 dynema cascade.  You have to get the lines the right lengths because this system is limited for travel.

another solution is replacing the lower two blocks of the cascade with a 4:1 purchase, you need a double block to make this work and a longer control line but the system gives lots more travel.  I use this on the ent to good effect.

For small sails you could try a 12:1 purchase. You will need a single with becket at the boom to give a 3:1 there. After that it's two more singles each doubling the puchase to reach 12:1.

I have never used a muscle box but assumed they would have a lot of friction compared to a cascade system.

[Banshee Ambulance]

For small sails you could try a 12:1 purchase. You will need a single with becket at the boom to give a 3:1 there. After that it's two more singles each doubling the puchase to reach 12:1.

I Used something like this on Flat Stanley with a 97 main and was fine. I used a 3x at the boom end which was sk75 spliced through those wire blocks with the hole in middle and then a standard 6x at the base. This worked well but was obviously 18x in total. I started using 24x but did not have enough travel.

[john_hamilton]

could anyone tell me what a muscle box is? i have never encountered one before?

[Banshee Ambulance]

http://www.sailboats.co.uk/Catalogue~Rwo_Muscle_Box_Long_10~p_R4530~c4807.html

Muscle Box - n. Box that gives you extra muscle. 

I think they are traditionally used for mast rams and the like but have never used one myself.

[daryl_wilkinson]

Yes there is a lot of friction in the muscle box and not much throw. I'm currently trying to work out some system that, 1: doesn't cost much / any money. 2: is as fast as possible to make. The two of these are not currently mutually compatable. It may mean junking the muscle box and making a cascade just to get an efficient system, quickly. Quickly may be the wrong word in this case though. As it is likely to mean quite a lot of reconfiguring, due to the way the kicker system is currently made. Something I want to avoid.

The muscle box is bolted to the front bulkhead at floor level, the control line runs from the bottom of the mbox down the centre line, along the floor to the back of the case. The kicker cable runs vertically from the top of the muscle box, through a bullseye in the case capping, up to a modified gooseneck fitting with a ring end that the cable runs through at deck level. This takes all the kicker loads, as the cable runs straight to the boom attachment. So this is currently only 6:1 could be 8:1 I haven't looked at the muscle box much. The box is a small one as well. I'm trying to work out something that means I don't have to completely pull this all apart and cost £100 bucks, which is easily done! Currently I haven't had that eureka moment yet!    

[daryl_wilkinson]

My current thinking is to keep the muscle box and use it as a fine control and attach another system to it with more travel. I haven't sussed this bit yet.

[Phil Alderson]

The cheapest method would probably be to use a leaver, which could be made from some aluminium plate or carbon plate or an offcut of carbon tube. It would be easy to get 4:1 from that if you then run a 2:1 from a spare trapeze adjuster that gets you a working kicker.

[ross_burkin]

To keep sailing time to max I was thinking of adding a light wind strop with a block and 'v' cleat ...

Does the current system not work at all? Most of sail around with not enough kicker on most of the time so I'm sure you'll be fine.

[daryl_wilkinson]

Kicker is less of an issue today. As the forestay bow fitting pulled out yesterday resulting in the mast going over the side. Luckily no damage to the mast or the crew who was on the wire. Sticking it back together and bolting it through today.

Thanks to Dave for making sure the day wasn't a right off and taking Luke out in his Fireball, which Luke enjoyed enormously, especially trap helming.

[Neil C.]

Seems to be a day for blowing up old rigs. It was blowing its nuts off up here today too. We pulled a shroud out of a spreader end on a wicked 2-sail reach (sheared the cap on the spreader). Combined with a ton of kicker led to some pretty extreme mast bend! At least the rig stayed upright and came back sort of straight. We're running a really crap ancient, floppy Needlespar. Anyone got an M7 lying about?