New build in devon.

[Tim Noyce]

This is only because the original boats from the mould were built for a specific purpose, to go to the Olympic Womans Skiff Trials. Having the wings easily removable meant that they could fit more boats in a container, which for mass production, was a big thing. There is no reason that using the moulds you could not bond in carbon wings into the structure and then have your shroud points outside on the racks. Whether this is necessary or not, I do not think it is.

[Phil Alderson]

A relatively quick way of building a female mould would be to take a "splash" of an existing boat, perhaps if a banshee or other modern boat owner were to make their boat available, a hull mould could be made quickly.

[daryl_wilkinson]

The only thing I have noticed about the Cardinal Sin layout is that the racks cant take the shroud loads. All the recent boats have the shrouds outboard on the front rack support. Both have been proven to work so I doubt it is an issue but something to think about. I have not sailed a Cardinal Sin but the deck layout does look user friendly.

Umm... I know of one that peeled the racks.

[Tim Noyce]

May I ask which one?

[daryl_wilkinson]

I'm not being punchy... but I'm not sure I'm at liberty to say.

[Tim Noyce]

Ok. Well I'm not sure what 'peeled the racks' means, but one of the racks did come off the Badger at one end due to a bolt parting company, but a quick screw back up and it was good to go. As a plus point though, the racks were removed from Subtle Knife for the nationals last year so that the boat could be put on a narrow double stacker. So every cloud...

Regardless of this, If the boat was built with more conventional Cherub methods (rather than more SMODDY techniques) then it really is not an issue for a new build.

[daryl_wilkinson]

Sorry I wasn't commenting on 'Cardinal Sin' designs when I said racks that hold rig loads had peeled. It was a none SMOD technique boat rack that pinged.

I'm much happier going on to the hull than the racks with the rig loads. Even if the shroud base is narrow. Long term I think it will be better.

[Will_Lee]

What does peeled the racks mean?

Which boat did that?

[Tim Noyce]

The shroud base of the Cardinal Sin is wider than most 'narrow' boats as with the deck flanges they are further outboard. I could measure them to see exactly, but I do know that the gap between deck and rack is definitely smaller than most.

[Banshee Ambulance]

A relatively quick way of building a female mould would be to take a "splash" of an existing boat, perhaps if a banshee or other modern boat owner were to make their boat available, a hull mould could be made quickly.

With permission from the relevant parties (Kevin, Paul, Aardvark), you could flop another mould off the E6 plug.

[Tim Noyce]

I'm not sure I really like the overuse of the expression "flop off a mould" as its not as quick, cheap and easy as it sounds!! You've probably heard of countless stories of people having to break the plug out of a mould to release it... and that isn't really an option when the plug is someone's pride and joy! It is an option... but you'd better be pretty confident you're going to get it right! Companies don't spend lots of money on zero shrink tooling resins for nothing.

[Stuberry]

Considering all options I think the Cardinal Sin is your best bet, for the following reasons:

- The mould is available immediately (subject to Rich's blessing)
- If your Dad's company want to show production capability he will probably need to use a female mould#
- The Cardinal Sin was designed to be a production boat and has a very professional finish, rather than a "one-off" finish

[Phil Alderson]

I'm not being punchy... but I'm not sure I'm at liberty to say.

The only boat that I know of which has lost a rack is mine, is there some other wing disaster that is not in the public domain that you are talking about?

[Graham Bridle]

The leading strut of my wing parted company with the deck post (I used to have a photo but I cant find it now) last year as I experimented with rig tension and was driving the boat harder - I wouldnt class it as anywhere near a wing disaster or peeling (although I'm not sure what that means either !) as everything stayed in place courtesy of the tension strut below the wing.

Anyway, all repaired now by cookie, quickly, invisibly and without quibble free !  As we sail largely experimental boats my view is that these things happen from time to time, and all you need from the builder is to learn from it and fix it up, we're lucky to have that facility in Aardvark at least !

[Jake_holmes]

wow, i didn't know i would kick up such a fuss. I have literally only just gotten back from Greece,  Change of plan at my dads end because they wanted to start building last week we couldn't get them the frames or a mould quick enough. Because they are using heat curing pre-preg they will need a female mould as a male mould would be too much of a hassle to release the dried carbon from. Im a little unsure about what to do currently as there seem to be a number of different suggestions flying around. Instead of being built now to show the companys skills in creating a complicated product at short notice they are now going to use the build of a boat to train a semi-skilled apprentice in the use of carbon, or something like that. I will speak to my dad again about what the best course of action would be. Thanks everyone for being so helpful, when i find my card i shall set up a paypal account to join the class association.