Flat Stanleys new owner

[ross_burkin]

Sweet!

[Will_Lee]

Did you sort out the jib cars?

From the side make the line of the jib sheet hit the forestay a bit more than two thirds of the way up. (the ratio of the foot to the leech, strictly)

From the top, make the jib angle 11 degs off the centreline (but allow lots of play with the tracks).

Send a picture!

[Banshee Ambulance]

Had my first sail in Stanley yesterday. Nice gentle force three to start off. All in all he is a well set up mild mannered beast. That was until I looked back from the wire at my mate who was helming at the time, to see he had the rudder in his hand and it wasn't attached to the boat! Splash! One bent rudder pintle. Also broke the track fitting for the prodder, the fitting I made stayed in tack though!

Still there are a few things I would like to change. I think it needs a gantry. The back end felt very cramped with the long tiller and pole filing what is quite a small space. There was also massive lee helm down wind and a very mild weather helm upwind. Perhaps a little more mast rake?

The jib cars were a bit of a guess. I will have a look and post some photos when I get the chance.

[Ben Howett]

Don't bother with adjustable tracks for the sheets. It's expensive and waist of time.

You Think? one of my biggest gripes with having a self tacker is how much more restricted you are with jib trim...

[ross_burkin]

Had my first sail in Stanley yesterday. Nice gentle force three to start off. All in all he is a well set up mild mannered beast. That was until I looked back from the wire at my mate who was helming at the time, to see he had the rudder in his hand and it wasn't attached to the boat! Splash! One bent rudder pintle. Also broke the track fitting for the prodder, the fitting I made stayed in tack though!

Still there are a few things I would like to change. I think it needs a gantry. The back end felt very cramped with the long tiller and pole filing what is quite a small space. There was also massive lee helm down wind and a very mild weather helm upwind. Perhaps a little more mast rake?

The jib cars were a bit of a guess. I will have a look and post some photos when I get the chance.

What kite were you using?

I thought about a gantry but It's just going to be extra weight. Shorten the tiller if you think it needs it. I think after a few outings you'll be used to it.

Although he is a very mild mannered boat compared to a modern Cherub, if it's not sailed flat you don't go fast and the helm becomes heavier very quickly. I want to come down for a sail!

[Will_Lee]

Jib track issue: Basically the adjustment is to allow you to get it right. After this there is minimal adjustment for conditions. This means that if you know where to put the turning block you can save a bit of money and weight by not having them. Most people do have adjustment to allow for the original setup.

[JimC]

Not necessarilly weather helm.  Cherubs are typically sailed with rather more side load on the rudder than most one designs. If you're not used to it the tug on the tiller caused by the sideload feels like weather helm. You only need to be concerned if the tiller is actually offset from the centreline with the boat bolt upright. The smart money is that its impossible to tell that from on the wire anyway. But for sure the slightest trace of heel will change things, and must be avoided.

[Phil Alderson]

Had my first sail in Stanley yesterday. Nice gentle force three to start off. All in all he is a well set up mild mannered beast. That was until I looked back from the wire at my mate who was helming at the time, to see he had the rudder in his hand and it wasn't attached to the boat! Splash! One bent rudder pintle. Also broke the track fitting for the prodder, the fitting I made stayed in tack though!

Still there are a few things I would like to change. I think it needs a gantry. The back end felt very cramped with the long tiller and pole filing what is quite a small space. There was also massive lee helm down wind and a very mild weather helm upwind. Perhaps a little more mast rake?

The jib cars were a bit of a guess. I will have a look and post some photos when I get the chance.

also make 100% sure that the rudder is all the way down and stays down when you are trucking along.

[roland_trim]

also make 100% sure that the rudder is all the way down and stays down when you are trucking along.

We had this problem with the trifle. The advice then was that the best way to hold the rudder on is to use a bungee style elasticated hold down. A piece of rope will always go slack 1/2 way through an outing. Ask Hayley how much the rudder falling on your head from an inverting boat hurts when you meet her 

[daryl_wilkinson]

Not necessarilly weather helm.  Cherubs are typically sailed with rather more side load on the rudder than most one designs.

Umm... I know your Bistro was. I changed my Bistro so it didn't. When I had Trifle, if I remember that far back, the only awkward thing was the upside down mainsheet jammer and I can't remember any significant load on the rudder ( BTW she didn't have a gantry then and it was OK ). Loco certainly didn't have much rudder load, not like your Bistro anyway. So I wouldn't say it was typical, well not in my experience anyway.

[Phil Alderson]

Elastic is definatly the best way to hold the rudder stock in place on the pintles, and can be tricky to do sometimes, I lost one rudder and wrecked the back of aqua twice from the stock migrating up and one of the pins comming out.

what I was meaning was ensuring the blade is all the way down, if it is slightly back then the helm will feel very heavy, over time the holes tend to wear and let the blade come back at speed.

I prefer to angle my rudder blades a bit forward to balance them a bit, it was particularly useful on Primal where there was a lot of side load on the rudder, but with the blade balanced the helm was still light.

[peter_barton]

Elastic is definatly the best way to hold the rudder stock in place on the pintles, and can be tricky to do sometimes...

Caution.
I had a old I14 for high speed West Solent cruzin and used to use tensioned 6mm bungee to hold the rudder stock down on the pintles. The lift of the conventional rudder (no T-foil) was so great under speed that the rudder still lifted off. Much to the embarrasment of future Bermuda Gold Cup Winner and Olympian to be, Bonky Borrett & Stevie Mitchell who were towed home, back up the Lyminington river by the RNLI.

Laser 4000s tie their rudders on as their retainers are dodgy. Using 4mm prestretched or excel racing dynema and a 3:1 purchase so any slack in tieing off is 1 thirded seems to hold tight, in my experience. Be sure to tie over pivet point to ensure tiller still moves.

[Banshee Ambulance]

I think I will remove the problem all together by using two female fittings for the top and a stainless bolt through the middle.

[Will_Lee]

Try to find a bolt rather than a machine screw.

A machine screw has thread going right up to the head. On a bolt the thread stops before the head.

A machine screw may mash up the inside of the gudgeons, because they are only alu.

A bit of string would be fine, and cheaper!

[phil_kirk]

On the ents which have a similar problem with a pivoting blade we either used a 2:1 purchase to hold the blade down as Pete described above or a short length of 4mm firbre glass rod put through the stock and the blade.
This is strong enough for sailing loads but will break if you hit something. tie it on to the stock with some wipping twine or similar. (and take a spare).
 fibre glass rod can be found in 1.2m lengths at B&Q it will make many rudder pins.  I was using this with either a wooden or carbon rudder stock.