Author Topic: Last cherub worlds.  (Read 20307 times)

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Offline JP233

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Last cherub worlds.
« on: October 08, 2014, 10:05:26 AM »
I could be totally wrong on the this but....
I belive there is a story of some (5) uk cherubs going down under.

If true if like to know more
Who, what, where, when, why is usually a good place to start.
Thanks
Jamie

Offline BenR

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2688- Atum Bom

Offline Neil C.

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Re: Last cherub worlds.
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2014, 12:00:40 AM »
    I belive there is a story of some (5) uk cherubs going down under.
    If true I would like to know more.
    Who, what, where, when, why is usually a good place to start.

    I could bore you at considerable length on this one, on account of the fact that Ken and I were there in the Flying Trifle, one of 8 UK Cherubs to make the trip to Botany Bay for the 95/96 Worlds. Rather than writing you a massive essay on the whole event, here are some random thoughts that spring to mind. Unfortunately the UK and Australian boats are so different now that it's highly unlikely anybody would consider it worthwhile spending the money and effort required to repeat this event. But you never know.....

    1. We had to start planning way in advance. The idea really got off the ground at the '94 UK Nationals, 18 months before the regatta. Craig Simons, one of the leading guys from the Australian Association was in the UK at the time and turned up with a formal invitation for a team of UK Cherubs to attend the Aus Nationals / Interdominions / Worlds at the end of 1995.

    2. The logistics were significant. We got sponsorship from a company on the South Coast who provided us with special aluminium cradle frames which would stack 3-high in a shipping container. Tim Dean sorted this out, and also organised the hiring of a 40-foot container, plus all the legal documentation, carnet, arranged loading and unloading at the docks at both ends etc. I think it worked out at about £800 per boat in the end.

    3. Eight UK Cherubs made the trip: Dave Roe / Helen Marsh 2660 (Pasta Frenzy), Mike Chalmers  / Matt Stobbart 2637(Bistro), Robin Russell / Alan Atterbury (Pasta Frenzy), Tim Dean / Una -Mary Colclough (Pasta Frenzy), Simon Roberts  / Joe Barker 2645 (Dog), Andy Kinchin / Mark (Dog), Andrew and Kate Horton (Platypus), Neil Cardno / Ken Scott Brown 2652 (Flying Trifle).

    4. Georges River SC on Botany Bay was very impressive. The story was that a lot of the members were "gambling only" members, who went to play the slot machines and bingo (something to do with Australian laws which only permitted gambling in a private club). As a result, the club was extremely well off financially with a huge garage for all the boats instead of the usual scruffy boat-park, several restaurants and bars, hot showers, comfortable TV lounge etc.

    http://georgesriversailingclub.com.au/

    5. It was windy. The average windspeeds were way higher than the usual in the UK, which the Aussies were well used to, but proved quite a challenge for a lot of the UK boats. There was also quite a big swell coming off the Pacific when the wind was out of the east. (The locals went on a lot about the "Black Nor-easter").

    6. The sight of shark nets didn't do much good for sphincter control, but in reality hitting big shoals of stinging jellyfish at speed was the bigger health hazard. That and the potential for self-inflicted liver damage from the great big jugs of Victoria Bitter which were sold very cheap at the sailing club bar.

    7. The racing was utterly brilliant. Very professionally run, and with 64 Cherubs on the start line it was quite a spectacle.

    8. The UK boats were fundamentally faster, but the standard of sailing amongst the Aussies and Kiwis was very high, so the UK boats ended up scattered throughout the results sheet by the end of the regatta.

    It was just an all round awesome trip. A definite formative experience of my life aged 26, and one I'm unlikely ever to forget. 


    [/list]
    « Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 09:44:16 AM by Neil C. »

    Offline JP233

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    Re: Last cherub worlds.
    « Reply #3 on: October 09, 2014, 12:45:01 AM »
    'I could bore you at considerable length on this one.'

    No you couldn't.

    So tha pasta frenzy, Norwegian blue, Spanish Inquisition, fizzy shark/pastadote, cheese before bedtime, another dog, theropy and the flying trifle all went to oz and back?
    Well that's added some heratige.

    If you can be bothered if love to hear some more.
    Thanks
    Jamie

    Offline Neil C.

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    Re: Last cherub worlds.
    « Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 09:42:59 AM »
    Nearly..... For the sake of accurate provenance, here's the list of ships that went to Australia as accurately as I can remember:

    2637 Norwegian Blue. Bistro. Now somewhere in France.
    2645 Cheese Before Bedtime. Dog. Still active in the UK
    2651 Strangely Brown. Dog. Still around, possibly South Wales?
    2652 The Flying Trifle. Flying Trifle design. Now in a shed in Hellevoetsluis, Netherlands.
    2656 Domino. Platypus design. Still around in the UK - now re-named as "Therapy". ??Brightlingsea.
    2660 The Pasta Frenzy. Pasta Frenzy design. Still in Dave Roe's garage as far as I know. Near Winchester.
    2662 Fizzy Shark. Pasta Frenzy design. Last seen at Southampton Watersports Centre. I believe still owned by Tim Dean.
    2666 Pistrix. Pasta Frenzy design. Now in France and re-named "Pastatoide"

    I have an idea that 2652 Flying Trifle (the finest boat I have ever owned!) may be the most widely travelled Cherub in history. It started life on the Isle of Wight, briefly moved to Datchet, then based at Royal Tay YC, near Dundee. Competed in regattas from Rock SC in Cornwall to Fort William SC in Northern Scotland. Went to Sydney and back again. Has competed at Carnac, Brittany and now lives in Holland!!! I would love to have it back, but the cost of transporting it back from the Netherlands is probably more than it's currently worth.

    Further tales of former glory regarding the Worlds will be gladly provided, but best done over a few beers whenever I get round to attending a Cherub open meeting again!
    « Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 10:01:06 AM by Neil C. »

    Offline JP233

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    Re: Last cherub worlds.
    « Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 10:25:47 AM »
    'Further tales of former glory regarding the Worlds will be gladly provided, but best done over a few beers whenever I get round to attending a Cherub open meeting again!'

    Yep! Il hold you to that.
    Thanks
    Jamie

    Offline HighwaytoHelm

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    Re: Last cherub worlds.
    « Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 11:35:48 AM »
    Does anyone have any info On strangely brown?  I'm looking for a boat and have recently moved to Swansea, so can't be far from it. Even if I volunteer myself as a crew getting more experience in the boats would be awesome.

    Offline JimC

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    Re: Last cherub worlds.
    « Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 12:27:18 PM »
    Some of the old reports seem to have gone missing from the website, but here's the one for the 96 worlds (sorry ISAF, I mean intergalactics). Davro used to have some fairly lurid tales about the event...

    =====================================================
    1996 Cherub International Championships.
    Georges River Sailing Club, Sydney, Australia.

    The event formerly known as the Cherub World Championships took place at the George's River Sailing Club, Doll's Point, Botany Bay, NSW, from 28th December 1995 to 5th January 1996.

     The boats entering were more or less divided up into two fleets, measuring respectively to the "UK" and "International" rules. The main differences were that the UK Rules boats were permitted asymmettric spinnakers, lessrestriction in mainsail profile and a slightly narrower waterline beam.

    Race 1
    Conditions:-
     · Very windy with a confused chop that was really tricky to sail in (yes, worse than the Solent).
    The reaches on the Olympic course used for this race were too tight for the lighter UK crews to carry their asymmetrics all the way down the legs. In general the Aussies seem to point lower and foot faster upwind, and were better able to cope with the sea conditions, and this, plus a shortage of big fleet practice for the Brits gave the Aussie boats the edge in this race.
     The race was won by Australians Roger Perrett & Adrian Manning, sailing "Sports Cherub", one of the new Murray design boats, which is to the UK rules. Roger is the current 420 World Champion. Dave Roe & Helen Marsh from the UK finished 15th after their boom broke in not very exceptional conditions whilst lying second. B. Smith & G. Stiuano in "Rocky-n-Bullwinkle" took second place at the finish.

    Race 2
    Conditions:-
     · 10 to 15 knots, gusty and shifty with a sloppy sea.
    The lighter conditions suited the UK rules boats very much better. Roger Perrett won again, and was about two thirds of a leg clear at the end, with Dave Roe second, about half a length clear of Mike Chalmers and Matt Stobbart (also from the U.K.) who were in turn well clear of the first Australian Rules boat, Jamie Roberts & Jason Jordan in "Trick With a Knife".

    Race 3
    Conditions:-
     · Moderate to Fresh
    Roger Perrett won again. Dave Roe was second, but then had the mast break more or less on the finishing line.

    Race 4
    Conditions:-
     · Very windy - 25 knots
    This was the first of two races held on day 5 after day 4 was lost due to a thunderstorm which made sailing inadvisable! The combination of a bowsprit breakage and Helen twisting her knee badly "tidying up" in this race put Dave Roe & Helen Marsh out of the event, as it meant they lost races 5 and 6. They were again well placed when the breakage happened. Jamie Roberts won the race, with Roger Perrett second.

    Race 5
    Conditions:-
     · Very Windy
    The race was won by M Harrington & B. Morris in "Dry Reaching", and B. Smith was second. Mike Chalmers lost a shroud in this race and so the mast broke at the lowers. They were 9th at the time. Roger Perrett experienced some difficulties keeping the fine bow of "Sports Cherub" above the water and finished 15th.

    Race 6
    Conditions:-
     · Not Known
    M Wren & L. Mortlock won in "Screaming Seamen", while Jamie Roberts second place gave him a chance of winning if Roger Perrett finished down the fleet.

    Race 7
    Conditions:-
     · Much lighter winds.
    Roger Perrett took the Championships with another win, and Jamie Roberts' second place secured second overall & the Australian Championships. There were appreciably better results for the Brits with 3 boats in the top ten - some wished it had been like that all week!.

    Roger Perrett's win was pretty emphatic, demonstrating just how much of an advantage in both speed and handling the U.K. Rules boats had over the International rules boats, though of course the ability of the crew is the most important factor. In addition the 15 to 20 knot choppy conditions experienced in most races are considered to have been ideal for the fine bowed Murray, whereas British designs tend to be much more compromised to deal with a wider variety of conditions.
     Its difficult to exaggerate quite how wretched Dave Roe and Helen Marsh's luck was in this event. They quite obviously had the speed to be placed at least 2nd overall. All three spars broke, yet all three were well tried and had frequently been used in stronger conditions than were experienced, and all broke in very moderate conditions.
     We have recently heard that the Moth Sailors from the UK had a number of problems with breakages of carbon parts at their last worlds in Australia and there is evidence that some epoxy laminates don't react very well to extreme temperatures. It is known that the container that went out to Australia got extremely hot inside at times.

    The U.K. Competitors gratefully wish to acknowledge sponsorship from Formula Spars.

    UK Places
    10   2637   Norwegian Blue *
    18   2645   Cheese before Bedtime *
    24   2666   Pistrix *
    33   2662   Fizzy Shark *
    35   2660   The Pasta Frenzy *
    43   2651   Strangely Brown *
    51   2652   The Flying Trifle *
    57   2656   Domino *
    « Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 12:33:16 PM by JimC »

    Offline Neil C.

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    Re: Last cherub worlds.
    « Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 04:07:57 PM »
    Does anyone have any info On strangely brown?  I'm looking for a boat and have recently moved to Swansea, so can't be far from it. Even if I volunteer myself as a crew getting more experience in the boats would be awesome.

    You could try PM-ing "Simon T" via this forum (look him up on the members list). I think he is the current owner, maybe located around Neyland, but can't promise you either of those facts are definitely true.

    Offline Graham Bridle

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    Re: Last cherub worlds.
    « Reply #9 on: October 09, 2014, 08:45:31 PM »
    Great memoirs Neil, I always felt its important to get those from past era's to record events as they saw them (sorry, you know what I mean !)

    Therapy was in Brightlingsea for a season while we re-tested Cherubs (Eddie was 8 then) - we renamed it Scumbag, then it went to Burghfield renamed again to "The Argument Clinic" - the more trivia minded might ponder the relationship between the names "Scumbag" and "Riot Van" - our two Cherubs.

    Don't think anyone will argue with you about the carbon footprint of "Flying Trifle", now get in the car again and take that pint off Jamie !

    Offline HighwaytoHelm

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    Re: Last cherub worlds.
    « Reply #10 on: October 09, 2014, 08:53:48 PM »
    It's a shame, I sail at Burghfield but therapy/scumbag/argument clinic is no longer in the boat Park. Which is a shame it would be great to see a cherub out eating 400's for breakfast
    « Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 10:22:57 PM by HighwaytoHelm »

    Offline JP233

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    Re: Last cherub worlds.
    « Reply #11 on: October 09, 2014, 11:51:55 PM »
    'Don't think anyone will argue with you about the carbon footprint of "Flying Trifle", now get in the car again and take that pint off Jamie !'

    Good the see the governments don't drink and drive adverts are working....
    Thanks
    Jamie

    Offline Tim Noyce

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    Re: Last cherub worlds.
    « Reply #12 on: October 10, 2014, 11:10:46 AM »
    Does anyone have any info On strangely brown?  I'm looking for a boat and have recently moved to Swansea, so can't be far from it. Even if I volunteer myself as a crew getting more experience in the boats would be awesome.

    You could try PM-ing "Simon T" via this forum (look him up on the members list). I think he is the current owner, maybe located around Neyland, but can't promise you either of those facts are definitely true.

    All details are true Neil. Strangely is in Gavs barn!

    Offline Tim Noyce

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    Re: Last cherub worlds.
    « Reply #13 on: October 10, 2014, 11:12:08 AM »
    'Don't think anyone will argue with you about the carbon footprint of "Flying Trifle", now get in the car again and take that pint off Jamie !'

    Good the see the governments don't drink and drive adverts are working....

    He didn't say anything about driving back again...

    roland_trim

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    Re: Last cherub worlds.
    « Reply #14 on: October 10, 2014, 11:30:20 AM »
    Neil - how about a consortium to get the Trifle back where she belongs?

    PS for clarity that is at 20+ knots with a crew and helm wondering how far from the boat they will be when they surface after she ejects them.