Hull weight - what is a permanently attached fitting ?

[PaulJ]

The rules state that the hull weight includes all permanently attached fitting. So if it's screwed, bolted or glued to the boat then it is permanently attached.

But what about if the fitting is spliced on, is that permanently attached ?

Let's take a spinnaker turning block or rachet block as an example, very often they are lashed to the wing bar, is that a permanent fitting or not.

[MK]

Permanently attached is where you never take it off the hull during sailing, towing etc apart from to repair or replace

If a splice is your chosen attachment method that is no different to glue or bolts, do not worry that if you change the ratchet blocks from being bolted on to spliced that anyone would then expect you to unsplice them for measurment

Think of the difference between rigging your boat and fitting it out, the intent is for the weight to be taken for a fully fitted out hull

[Phil Alderson]

I agree with what MK said, just remember there are some exceptions, particularly rudder stock, many people do leave them bolted on but they are not included in the hull weight.

4.1.7 Weight
The hull weight in dry condition shall not be less than 50kg. The weight shall include all
permanently fixed fittings and bowsprit, but shall exclude sails, spars, standing rigging,
centreboard, rudder, rudder stock and other loose gear.

[phil_kirk]

The class rules also indicate which specific items are included in the hull weight.

The permanently fixted fittings could include the rudder stock although this is not stated by the rules.  May I suggest that we re-considering the wording to state permenantly fitted fittings and not spell out what should be included.  Perhaps we should list what is not included. eg. foils, mast, standing rigging, boom, sails and tiller extensions.

I believe that sheets and kite halyard are not included.

[Clive Everest]

My rudder stock is bolted on, with threadlock, I don't want it coming undone.
I tow with the rudder blade in the stock, it does not easily fit in the car.
Do these count in the weight limit?

Clive

[Phil Alderson]

The class rules also indicate which specific items are included in the hull weight.

The permanently fixted fittings could include the rudder stock although this is not stated by the rules.  May I suggest that we re-considering the wording to state permenantly fitted fittings and not spell out what should be included.  Perhaps we should list what is not included. eg. foils, mast, standing rigging, boom, sails and tiller extensions.

I believe that sheets and kite halyard are not included.

The rudder stock is explicitly excluded from the hull weight as are sails, spars, standing rigging, centerboard, rudder and other loose gear.

Sheets and Halyards would typically come under the heading of loose gear.

[phil_kirk]

For anyone who is planning a new build would it help if I provided the weights of the main components from our E5 build.  As we completed each item like rudder, centreboard, case, bulkheads, pole, boom we weighed them. The finished painted hull was very similar in weight to the pro built Antidote.   So I would say it is a good example.

We ended up with a boat that weighed 45kgs with thin paint in measurement condition.  The repairs from the car accident added 3kgs.  I expect that much of this was due to more paint.

I would reccomend aiming at  the 45kg mark to allow a margin for future modifications.  You can build a perfectly strong boat for that and keep it competitive for the future.

[Clive Everest]

Hi Phil,
I am starting a build and would be interested to see those weights.

Clive

[Neil C.]

Always good to hear about new boats in build. Are you building to an existing design Clive, or have you come up with something new?

[Clive Everest]

New

[Neil C.]

Cool.

[phil_kirk]

I'll dig them out Clive.

[Ben Howett]

Id be really interested in that aswell Phil - I have a weight estimation sheet here and it would be nice to validate it a bit against some real numbers.

[phil_kirk]

I found the spread sheet last night and tidied it up so someone else could understand it.  I will post tonight.  i noticed that some smaller weights were estimated after the event but i think they are a good representation of what can be achieved.

[phil_kirk]

my spreadsheet of weights is attached. 
It also includes a work sheet calculating the weight of the beams and the mast stump from the layup.