What rope for kite halyard?

[Torchy]

Current is 5mm and fairly soft

Does anyone use 6mm? (to give crew more to grip on)

What type of rope? Is plain Excel OK? (not very grippy?)

[BenR]

4mm excel racing and some MTFU cream for the crew  (or some ear plugs for the helm)

[dave_ching]

We used to use dyneema but that lasts about half a season before it spends its life twisting the night away.
We use Mafioli now.
It is none twist and has lasted a couple of seasons now. It is soft on the hands too.
There are probably lots of other non twist ropes now.
Non twist is the key.

[Hayley_Trim]

Agreed. Crew's Union supports Mafioli. Excel caused deterioration in language aboard our boa due to spontaneous knotting.

[Torchy]

Crew's union wins on a show of hands, ta

Atum Bom will be monitored for potty language (4mm!!!) and recommended anti-chafe cream, a thick pair of gloves for the crew and ear plugs for the helm

[Torchy]

btw if rope starts off non-twisty and develops twist, the twists are being put into it.

I can't think how twists will happen in use as a kite halyard (I might be wrong) so it must happen when it is coiled for storage. Since my climbing days I never coil ropes by 'winding' them over my arm, like I used to - halve it, halve it again and again, and again etc then put an overhand or figure 8 into the (whole) coil to hold it together.

With very long or large diameter ropes you halve it, then drape it over your neck and flake, then flake, then flake...try doing it over a 1,000m drop 

You can quite easily remove twists from rope by using your hand to 'run them' to the end of the rope - takes a bit of patience but it works. It also works on telephone handset wires but this is getting scary....must have been my potty training.

[Will_Lee]

We used the 4mm holt proline, with something stuffed up it where it hits the cleat.

Builders gloves recommended.

[PaulJ]

4mm excel for us. Tapered for the first 6m or so which reduces windage upwind and makes hoists a little easier. We always remove any kinks prior to stepping the mast plus we never coil it when we take the mast down, we run it up round the top spreaders and back down again.

[dave_ching]

I do not know why it twists but being neatly coiled is certainly not it.
I thinkt is something to do with pressures and angle but to be honest the problem is solved by buying the correct rope for the job.

[Hayley_Trim]

I'm with you Dave. It didn't matter what we did, take it out untwist and re-rig each time we sailed, strip part of it  etc etc. it still twisted. Might have been block alignment, or perhaps I shouldn't pirouette on every hoist (or at least put in a reverse one as well  ). It happened on all 3 of our boats, and it doesn't happen with the mafioli. Not that there aren't plenty of other reasons for the language  turning blue...

[Torchy]

OK...respect the opinions but twists have to come from somewhere. I can't for the life of me see where it twists on the boat...in use.

In mountaineering some ropes are 'easy to handle'...I think what people mean here is 'handles better when twisted'....perhaps this means twists make it through resistance (rope loops when thrown over an edge, a karabiner) more often than not. Better not to let twists develop (and have a 'good handling' rope)...and from time to time feed them through to the end of the rope (I guess I do this once a year, usually prior to a big trip...and on telephone receiver cords wherever I go - do I need therapy?)

Food for thought...not sure what's going on but that's my tuppence.

[Torchy]

I just checked Loco's old kite halyard...it's full of twists (in the sheath at least) but no kinks...it's dead straight and has functioned perfectly with no kinks, despite the twisted sheath.

Not sure what rope it is...a bit furred, soft sheath with white core. Looks like old furry purple Excel 5mm.

Maffioli on order - belt and braces. 

btw I have cordless phones at home...I feel calmer 

[Will_Lee]

Causes of twists (theoretical):

1) Tops of spinnakers sometimes twist on their way out of the chute as they blow past the leeward side of the jib.

2) A guess a poor lead with a block slightly twisted may put twists in because when the rope is under tension the first contact between sheave and rope will be the side of the groove in the sheave rather than the bottom.

Of course, like this twists and untwists are created in pairs. Problematic twists are either when there are actual permanent twists in the kite halyard or when the twists and untwists cannot meet and cancel each other out.

3) A bobble at the top of the kite may allow the head to twist more easily, allowing the kite to untwist.

4) Really old kites tend to do it more than other kites. I've only ever had it happen on pre-terminal spinnakers.

5) I guess some ropes are more prone to turning twists into tangles. I would expect unsheathed ropes to less prone to this.

6) The downhaul side of the kite halyard is expected to be able to 'soak up' a few twists before problems are seen.

Overall my message is that this is not a very well understood problem, but twists/tangles are not inevitable. This means if you have them, keep changing things until they go away. Then stop changing things! This risks being a bit wasteful, if the things you change are bought objects rather than techniques, but I do not think there is a short cut to this one.

[Torchy]

Thanks Will, good post