Handicap 2012

[Phil Alderson]

The RYA have released the handicaps for 2012
http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/technical/Web%20Documents/py-general/2012%20listv3.xls

The Cherub has dropped 11 points to 930 for this year.

[Will_Lee]

It's really good that we have a number, whatever it is.

[Tim Noyce]

Looks favourable. The 14 dropped by 45 points since 2011 and I wouldn't say they had any major developments in the last year.

[Clive Everest]

What PYs are people sailing off at club events?

Hayling have given us a rating of 830. This seams a bit harsh, or are we just really slow?
I guess that we will find out at our first open event.
Are any of you routinely beating RS700s / 800 etc. round the course?


Clive.

[Graham Bridle]

See another thread somewhere in here re the bloody mary this year.

The RYA are recommending 930, problem with a Cherub is when the conditions are right (no beat against the tide up the shore, no tight reaching where others can kite and some other factors, generally no sign of land or dirty wind from others !) then 930 is generous, we've won by some distance on that, but also narrowly by a few seconds. On a different day where conditions are wrong (reverse of above) then we're very midfleet on 930.

830 seems low to me in your first season at a club with no real record of current boats, on the right day you might be doing OK on it, on other days I'm afraid Alex wont be going home with chocolates. Whether you can do anything about it ......

[Clive Everest]

Thanks Graham,
What number does your club use?

Clive

[Will_Lee]

At Whitstable we were regularly racing against good B14's and good Mustos. They are on 870 or so. In favourable conds we would be among the front or sometimes in front of them all on the water if there were not too many stirring the air up. In unfavourable conds we would get slaughtered, even on 930. We have beaten RS800s round the course, but this was very much the exception.

My view is that handicap wrangling risks looking very bad. At Whitstable I started this discussion with the senior race officer by saying that I would answer any questions he had, but the decision was his and once made there would be no backchat from us. His response was to place us at 930 but  when we won a race to calculate what our py would have to have been for us to win only be a second. This is a worthwhile calculation and I do not recall it ever being as low as 830. If you have a completely blinder then 850 was a v good score (which I think we got on the round cumbrae race one year).

It seems you'll be doing v well to get anywhere on 830. On the other hand it's a bit of a complement to be thought of as that fast.

[Graham Bridle]

Brightlingsea sail me on 920, but I have one of their coveted trophies on my mantlepiece so I dont expect that to last. Bear in mind though that that particular race was a commitee boat start, 12knots and a long course. Most races we start, finish and turn in a shifty narrow creek, then short tack out to sea followed by a nice tight reach - on those races it can take us a lap to clear merlins and fireballs, we have one good 700 and one good B14, I wouldnt expect to beat either round a course or even be very close, I would expect once or twice a year to give them one hell of a fright though

I am with Will, handicap arguing is a fruitless sport, however I wouldnt have the trophy at 830 and that day we sailed as well as we could, conditions were perfect and it all fell into place.

[Clive Everest]

Thanks for your comments.
I agree with the sentiment that there is little to be gained from arguing with the handicapping officer.
All the fast boats at HISC have had their handicaps adjusted to account for large tidal courses.
Most equivalent boats have been brought down 40 points so our 100 point reduction does seam a bit harsh.
I guess that the challenge now is to see if we can ever get close to it.
At high tide on the start of the ebb Chichester harbour should be pretty good for Cherubing.

[JimC]

The last time I raced a Cherub at Hayling (back in the early 90s) the RO publicly stated that the reason for the handicap he'd given the Cherubs was so that they couldn't possibly win. I haven't been back. What made him look so very juvenile was that he had already done that with the course he had set...

[TSC]

Clive, I've had a real good tussle over the last couple of years in my 700 at TSC, first against Will when he turned up for our Regatta, and on handicap I think we were pretty much even with him sailing off of 930. More recently both Paul Croote in Antidote and Phil Kirk in E-numbers have really pushed me hard. On large open courses I think the Cherub sits about the same speed as the 700. What the Cherub gains upwind, the 700 claws back on the way down by sailing deeper. Lots of tacking up the bank in a tidal estuary favours the 7 and pushes the Cherub back to 930. I think a well sailed Banshee, E5 or E6 is probably going to end up around 860 once you have a decent number regularly racing with good crews but 930 allows for the different conditions and averages out fleets skill level.
Paul

[phil_kirk]

Clive,

So long as they consider adjusting the handicap once you have a series or season of results under your belt.

Fortunately Thornbury have been very good to us and have taken the effort to analyse results and agree a handicap that allows for a range of conditions.  The more we sail the better the data we have to work with and the closer the results will become.

[JimC]

The more we sail the better the data we have to work with and the closer the results will become.

Amen. The secret to getting a fair PY is to get out there and have as many people as possible sailing as often as possible...

[BenR]

Just had a chat with my club and seeing as they have probably never had a cherub race there before (definitely not an 05 rules one) they are going to let me sail off 930. I'm going to need every handicap point I can get to start with but considering it is the same bit of water that Clive is having to sail off 830 with HISC I am pretty chuffed! 

[phil_kirk]

To coin a phrase 'the grass is always greener'  or in this case the water is always bluer.