7-12knts fully foiling

[daryl_wilkinson]

http://www.rclass.org/video/3-foiling-rs/view

[dave_ching]

Very impressive technically speeking and all that.
BUT,
Is it me or does that look really boring.
What you can see of the crews they are less than dynamic

[daryl_wilkinson]

Regular sailing is super exciting in those conditions, is it? I know which one I would prefer.

Some less boring pictures...

http://www.rclass.org/seasons/2010/5-foilers-on-the-water

[Neil C.]

Hmm....

My main worry is that it doesn't seem to be a boat any more. The "boat" bit has become an obsolete bit of fibreglass which joins the rig to the foils. I'm not sure I'd like to see the UK Cherub go down that route.

[Will_Lee]

Also I note the crash helmets....

[dave_ching]

They clearly have a lot of work to do.
It looks like they have to major problems to solve.
Firstly trapeezing isnt a real option, they seem to have there legs hooked around the gunnel at best.
Secondly they need to find away of compensating for the massive loss of drag they get as the hull lifts.
With the moths the wand works because it is a relatively small difference but with the larger hull comes a larger difference.
Solving these kinds of problems could be fun for some people but not really for me.
Fetteling is all very well but I do not think sailing fast on a set of well sorted foils would be as exciting spotting your landing as you skip over waves.
In short solving the problems for me would win you races get your picture taken but would it make you happy. WHERE HAS THE HAPPINESS GONE PEOPLE!
I still think T foils were a step backwards in the fun department but probably just makes me a hick from the sticks.

[daryl_wilkinson]

I've aked Paul Roe in NZ to comment on this tread....


They clearly have a lot of work to do.
Well, it was their first day on foils. So they probably have some
learning to do. It was also fairly windy.

It looks like they have to major problems to solve.

In the text accompanying the pictures it says that that particular boat
had a setup problem. The problem was too much main foil angle which
couldn't be trimmed out. Hence the continuous liftoffs. Its simple
enough to solve by changing the relative angles.


Firstly trapeezing isnt a real option, they seem to have there legs
hooked around the gunnel at best.

Sailing to windward is marginally more tricky as he boat goes fastest
heeled significantly to windward. This makes keeping your footing and
staying with the boat a bit harder, but then surely that's good from the
"its boring" point of view.


Crew was wiring fine, but they're actually out of control. I suspect
you'll find the skipper was being conservative in not wiring as he would
have realised they had a problem. In the photo where his legs are under
the gunwale he's actually falling away from the boat as it bares off out
of control once the main foil has ventilated.

We put those photos up to counter the it looks boring crowd ;-)

We've got more boring ones of us and others twinning up wind ;-) they're
just not on the site. Heres a couple from the site...
http://www.rclass.org/leander/2010/pictures/leander-2010-sprint-series-super-cup-photos/Leander-2010-Sprints-Start-IMG_2331.jpg/image_view_fullscreen
http://www.rclass.org/seasons/2010/pictures/3-foiling-rs/R565-92MoreFM-Steve-MacIntosh-and-Tony-Park-Foiling-DSC08253.JPG/view




Secondly they need to find away of compensating for the massive loss
of drag they get as the hull lifts.
With the moths the wand works because it is a relatively small
difference but with the larger hull comes a larger difference.
Solving these kinds of problems could be fun for some people but not
really for me.

These problems are mostly solved and the pictures of Massive Attack are
hopefully a one off thing. No one would go out on purpose with the set
up they had. It was a mistake made much more obvious by the conditions.

Even with the wand disconnected and up flap they couldn't keep it on the
water downwind. You can see how low they're trying to go to keep the
speed down when they're both in the middle of the boat, but it still
takes off....

It was funny and scary to watch at the same time.


Fetteling is all very well but I do not think sailing fast on a set of
well sorted foils would be as exciting spotting your landing as you skip
over waves.

Having done both, and I'd say our foils are pretty well sorted, I find
the foils more exciting. Both up and downwind. We only swim marginally
more downwind with the foils and are getting that slowly sorted.

Its interesting how people like to believe its less exciting even though
the people doing it say its the opposite and have the experience to
know. We've sailed without foils a couple of times since we put them on,
its not more exciting! Its different, but not more exciting.

If it wasn't more exciting we'd all have said, nice idea, but its not
for us and we wouldn't have done it as a squadron.

The R guys only pursued foils seriously once some of them had actually
tried foiling moths and realised it was a lot of fun, would work well on
an R, was legal and within the spirit of the class.

Believe it or not the R guys all sail the boats because they are
exciting, and the changes over time keep it exciting and challenging.

In short solving the problems for me would win you races get your
picture taken but would it make you happy. WHERE HAS THE HAPPINESS GONE
PEOPLE!

Everyone here is really enjoying themselves ;-)

We've taken a heap of people out and they all have loved it.

As Sean said on http://crew.org.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15799
"all the guys that have put foils on say that they don't want to go back
to conventional again, a real buzzzzzzzz"

I still think T foils were a step backwards in the fun department but
probably just makes me a hick from the sticks.

I'd tend to agree with that for a single rudder foil.

But the same could be said for pole kites ;-) and I don't think anyone
wants to go back to them.

[dave_ching]

If you notice I did make it clear it was my thoughts not a fact.
And generally he agrees.
They do need more development they aren't more fun just different.
Personally I think thats the really cool thing about sailing.
Something that doesn't interest one excites another.
Personally I have no interest in going around the world single handed ( for sleep depravation just have a kid)
but for others it is there world.
Good luck to everyone in NZ and when all the fetteling is done and it just becomes very difficult to sail I will very happy tojump on a set of foils.

[daryl_wilkinson]

If you notice I did make it clear it was my thoughts not a fact.
Yep I realised that, and as a few people have expressed the same
thought, I just wanted to present some experience from on the water that
suggests its better on foils.

And generally he agrees.
They do need more development they aren't more fun just different.

Unfortunately my meaning wasn't clear when I said "We've sailed without
foils a couple of times since we put them on, its not more exciting! Its
different, but not more exciting"

By "not more exciting", I meant, counter to perceptions, conventional
isn't more exciting. So just to be even more clear "sailing
conventionally is definitely fun, but the foils are more exciting". My
apologies for not being clear.

Personally I think thats the really cool thing about sailing.
Something that doesn't interest one excites another.
Personally I have no interest in going around the world single handed
( for sleep depravation just have a kid)
but for others it is there world.
I absolutely agree.

Good luck to everyone in NZ and
Thanks, we're having a great time.

when all the fetteling is done and it just becomes very difficult to
sail I will very happy tojump on a set of  foils

I think we're pretty much at that stage now. But being a development
class people will never stop trying to improving things.




regards Paul

--
Paul Roe