UK-Cherub Forum
Cherub Chat => Sailing Stories => Topic started by: Banshee Ambulance on November 09, 2008, 11:32:32 PM
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I'm talking to Ross at the moment and going to have a look at/probably buy Flat Stanley next weekend. I'm really looking forward to getting into the class and I know you are all very experienced and knowledgeable people so if you have any pearls of wisdom for a new cheruber or think that I am making a terrible mistake please get in touch. I know he is going to be a bit of work but i'm not scared of a project and have the time and space so thats not an issue, although I am by no means an expert sailor or rigging expert so have a lot to learn. The Cherub seems a great class and if all goes to plan I look forward to joining it.
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Flat Stanley is one of the all time great boats in the class, and is still solid and strong. She's also basically still very close to the original condition in which she won umpteen championships back in the 1980s.
On the other hand the design is a 1979 modification of an approximately 1974 one. The state of the art has advanced an awful long way since then. As a first Cherub to learn how to sail them she's a good choice, but any kind of significant modification would be a dreadful shame for three reasons.
One is that you'll lose the "solid and strong" bit and never get it back again, because the construction is quite different from what we do now and because of the different materials not altogether compatible.
Two is that the hull shape will never be remotely competitive with a modern design no matter what you do to the boat
Three is that you'd effectively be destroying the historical significance of the boat.
So as a boat to take out and learn sail - great. As a project boat to modify and update - you'll be much better off with something like a Bistro or a Dog.
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Rob, there is no major work to be done. He functions well and just needs a couple of things ironing out. Looking forward to meeting you this weekend.
Jim, when head to head with Phil and James in Kipper (a dog) there wasn't much difference in speed. He had much newer, slightly bigger sails and the ability to out point due to us not pulling enough kicker on >:(. This was on the fairly windy first day. I think if we knew where to point the boat we would have been snapping at his heals all away around the course. Phil is just a much better sailor than me!
At the inlands Stu and I were slowing down a lot and ducking the Lee's (upwind on the same tack) as we weren’t racing and didn't want to get in there way. It was blowing close to 40 knots though. I've also beaten 12 foot skiffs around the course, but maybe in this case that’s not saying too much...
Basically if it's windy you'll do well. If it's really windy you'll do very well. In the light you suffer but who wants to sail in the light stuff anyway ;D
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I'm not thinking of doing any major work to the boat. Just a bit of a tidy up essentially. I am by no means an expert sailor and I have to be honest and say that I find the L4000 I currently sail every now and then a bit of a handful so am thinking a 91 rules boat is a good entry point into the class. The only thing that is troubling me slightly is the mast rake issue but I'm sure its sortable. I am planning on keeping it at Southampton Sailing club as Weston has no pound space at the moment which is where all my friends sail.
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Flat Stanley just keeps on going!
Enjoy the boat (and sail him hard) but please no choppy choppy apart from maintenance: He is very good as he is. When you want to upgrade, sell the boat to the next person to take part in the Flat Stanley story.
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It was blowing close to 40 knots though.
really.... I'm surprised anyone was left alive. 40 knots is a LOT of wind. http://grouperboat.com/force8.html (http://grouperboat.com/force8.html)
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http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub/GPSAR/gpsar.php?filename=KGSC-20080126a.gpx&maps=maps/kgsc.maps
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Wills GPS track is of Flat cutting a new groove into King George Reservoir!
For Dazza - Memories of Corus:
-Born Slippy sitting airborne, floating 4 inches above her trolley held only by the bow line and the trailer lap strap.
-Ballistic sailing - giant grins.
-Unabomber falling over backwards from excessive acceleration.
-Everyone wimping out of the afternoon session (including my crew).
-The biggest red arrow on XC weather stationed exactly over the club.
-My best race result ever (couldn't resist that one...)
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GPS track doesn't seem to run for me, but I'm sure it tells your story correctly. If it was blowing 40knts respect is due. Not sure I'd want to play in that in a Cherub. I destroyed a Buzz at Soverign S.C in less wind but guess a lot more sea, as the mast went the space frame was sent to windward taking the hull with it. I take it the sea state was more reasonable at Corus?
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Sea state? More pond state! It was pretty damn flat but it got windier in the afternoon and there was some serious lake wavage hitting the concrete.
In Wales it got a bit choppy in the main channel the day before and the first day of racing. It was quite breezy. I had one foot on the transom (I was crewing) and Adem sitting on my other foot. One major pitch pole and I fell off a few times. It was the best sailing in FS I've ever done though. Rob, I've got some foot loops but I never got round to fitting them. You can have them as well.
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Wills GPS track is of Flat cutting a new groove into King George Reservoir!
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SOLD. He will be towed away in a week or so :'(. Rob is mad keen to get sailing and couldn't be happier with where he is going and who he is going to. I'm going to miss him though.
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What are you going to plug the gaping hole in your life with now Ross? E5?
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Rob, welcome. You have quite possibly just made the best decision of your entire life. I bought my first Cherub 18 years ago. Sailed it a couple of times but didn't really know what I was doing. I then went to a Cherub training event at Lee on Solent where I crewed on Flat Stanley. My life has never been the same since.
Neil
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Can't wait to get him into the workshop, get the little things ironed out and go sailing!
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You are the latest chapter in Flat Stanleys amazing story! Well done.
More like ice skating than sailing. Which is your club? BLYM?
Fixey fixey! Choppy choppy no no. (Please).
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Rob is based down in Southampton so Stanley will feel right at home in some solent chop! Rob, you WILL need fruit loops!
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Looks like I will be able to pick him up on Wednesday next week. Ross, would you mind getting the trailer sorted and bolting those shroud points in? Cheers,
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No probs.
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I am now the proud owner of Flat Stanley! Picked him up today.
Ross, it seems your bike pump made it into the back of the bus with all our other clobber. I'll do my best to get it posted to you.
Cheers, I cant wait to get sailing.
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Stanly is coming on. Hull refit is well under way with a (thin) coat of battleship grey deck paint on the interior, dagger board support glassed over and transom support filled and glassed. New spin halyard fittings and pole out fittings. Foils fared and re sprayed in kitchen appliance white. New (old) main in progress at Alverbanks.
Now I am turning my attention to the rig. I will be keeping the old mast for the time being until I have time to re fit the RS600 mast I have. My plan is to go for conventional lowers to the shroud base points and to have D2s running to the current lower points at 90 degrees to the mast. Anyone got any ideas as to if this will work? Anyone know where I can have rigging made up at a good price/
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Hi - Glad FS is coming together. Put up a pic!
The D2s are there to keep the lower mast straighter fore and aft. Having them out sideways like that will make them not work.
Because you have a foredeck strut pushing back on the gooseneck, the sideways lowers are fine though. One reason they are like that is ergonomics - that gap between the lower point and the shround point is really important!
D2s may well not be needed: You don't have uppers, so there is no reason for the spreaders to be far back. This means you can support the mid section of the mast by having the spreaders a bit more forward instead.
Getting shrouds made up: Bethnal Green Marine is excellent value for money in this regard. A sponsorship deal may be possible - you never know!
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The strut is a tricky one, originally it would have worked to control the mast bend from the kicker going up wind and also to stop the mast from inverting from the symmetric spiniker pole pushing back on the mast and inverting it down wind.
With the asymetric there is less risk of the mast inverting, however it is still there as the hoist is quite a bit above the hounds.
If you go with more conventional lowers you could remove the strut, this lets the jib cross eisier in the tacks. I removed the strut on the Flying Kipper when it had the ali 1990's rig, however it was always set up with a slight bend lower down, to help avoid any disasters.
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Sounds like FS is getting the pimpification he deserves!
Bethnal Green marine is can only mean Roland and Hailey's garage. Get some PBO and splice it, that'll be a nice touch! As will says, D2's aren't nessisary unless you get a masthead kite.
Making a bag at the end of the chute would be a good addition. The kite flops around the cockpit floor unless the crew keeps stuffing it into the chute. It might be worth fitting out that 600 mast and learn how to sail Stanley with that mast, rather than learning how to sail the boat and then changing it, then learning how to sail it again.
Have you got a launch date?
Give me a ring if you need help with anything.
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The main reason for going with conventional lowers is to get rid of the strut. It's more or less had it at the mast end and the mast fitting for it is missing. I also don't really like the way the lowers tie up at the moment, would far rather the chainplate and clevis pin system. Also getting rid of the strut opens the possibility for a self tacking jib should I so choose.
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Forgot to mention, the hoist will be lower down as the mast I have is currently set up for a bigger kite.
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The blue bit of 'lecy tap is the marker for the hoist hight.
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If you want some wire lowers with T terminals making up give me a ring and i'll make you some up, can post them with the sail when we post that.
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The lashings are used rather than adjusters because they are lighter, cheaper, probably stiffer, stronger and have a better resolution. They are not repeatable, but that's ok because the lowers can live on the boat - you put them into the mast when you put the mast up. The 4mm resolution you get with a chainplate is not good enough. I know this because I made the very same mistake you are contemplating on LFC in circa 1996. Be a smartiepants and save the £17.28!
http://shop.pinbax.com/index.asp?selection=detailed&uid=12217&itemtitle=Vernier%20Adjuster
Struts protect the mast from gybe-related breakage. Many broken masts testify to its importance. Ross probably has the mast fitting you need. We have at least two carbon struts you can have, and probably the mast fitting too.
A self tacker looks groovy and speeds up the gybes, but it is heavy, expensive, difficult to set up, and on a small rig boat with no snout, you will pay a sail-area penalty. It also reduces one of the many really special things about Flat Stanley: Go sailing in anything, anywhere, and be having the time of your life. The reason for this is that a self tacker cannot let the jib flog straight out like a flag. After a big stack in big winds you don't want any obstacle to getting back upright again. A self tacker is such an obstacle. Also: What is the purpose of a self tacker? It's to allow the crew to take the mainsheet through the tacks. On FS the helm is not trapezing so will have the main - so no need for self tacker.
Very well done on the foils. Here's a GPS track of Ross and me in FS on KGSC, with the foils all furry:
http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub/GPSAR/gpsar.php?filename=KGSC-20080126a.gpx&maps=maps/kgsc.maps
We top out at 17.2knots or so. You will get more at Netley!
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Pictures showing the neatening up of the dagger board support with proper fittings instead of the nasty great hole in the foam. The bulls eye is for the spin halyard to drop through to the turning block on the floor and the thru deck block takes the pole out to the other turning block on the floor.
I'm still fairly keen on going with conventional lowers. If they will be lashed or pinned I don't know until I get the rig on the boat. A self tacking jib is not really in the pipeline at the moment as Will says, its a little pointless.
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Rob,
A little bird (she's tiny!) told me you're Soton based.
If Stanley is with you I am around for boat bimbling/rigging etc.
If you want any help let me know, if not I'd still fancy having a peek at how
how things are progressing.
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I *very* strongly advise against changing the lowers system. You're virtually guranteeing yourself a rash of gear failure if you change things in that area. As far as pins are concerned, you will not get the tension you need with anything other than a lashing, and the boat is engineered for the loads coming down the strut. I think I have an ex Canoe strut sitting in a garage not that far from Soton, and am planning a trip to Marineware when the snow clears, I could maybe drop it off somewhere. You could combine the two...
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OK, i am convinced. I will keep the rig as is for the time being, or at least until I get my 600 mast fixed up. Will and jim C - could you please p.m. me with any details of struts i could beg, borrow buy or steal from you? Thanks.
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you will recall that FS's current mast was Slippery's old tin rig which never had a strut or lowers fitted. FS's step is slightly higher than slippery's hence why the shrouds appeared a bit short. I don't know if this adjustment was ever made.
If the mast section is different this may change people's views on wether to have a strut lowers or not.
In my view and from a mast staying up angle the more support you give a mast the better.
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Its not quite Atum Bom but here you go:
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At least two struts which are likely to fit FS. They are about 400mm long, and one is nicer than the other. Free to a good home. Each one has a slot at each end through which a clevis pin goes.
You'll also need one of these:
(http://www.boatsnbits.co.uk/acatalog/rwotrack.jpg)
and one of these:
(http://shop.pinbax.com/items/R2560.jpg)
The track goes on the mast. The slider goes in the track. The strut is attached to the slider. The other end of the strut goes on the fitting in the middle of the fordeck.
I may have some of this stuff, but it is at Bethnal Green Marine. Can you make it to London, especially on wednesday or thursday?
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I've got an ex Halo strut here which is 663mm between 8mm bolt holes. No fancy fittings - never had any. If you're missing the mast end piece it will either be on the bottom piece which I hope the previous owner still has, because he's supposed to pass it to me, or will be on the original mast, which is in Wales but put aside for me. Either way it would be good to keep the boat as original as absolutely possible... (which is why I'm collecting the bits of te old mast for the vintage Xherub museum). Up at Epsom I have a Canoe strut which does have end fittings, but is probably too short for FS.
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the strut on FS has the slider on the fore deck and the fixed pivot on the mast. I could potentially make this pivot fitting but getting hold of the materials is tricky.
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Post a couple of pics of what you've got... I can't remeber the details. All I had on Halo was a "U" section rudder pintle riveted to the mast and a hole through the tube with the ends flattened.
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Stanley's prodder has a track on the foredeck and pivoting fitting on the mast. It's just a piece of metal plate that 's been bent and had hole drilled in it. A pin goes through the top of the prodder and held in place by the fitting.
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Picture of the boat as it is now. The slider is coming apart too which is half the problem. I think the spot welds are pulling apart which is why it is falling apart.
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Looks a bute!
Hopefully all your TLC will make FS want to go even faster.
Just conceptulising the skis to go on any boat to cope with the current snowy conditions!
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Prod collection... currently in Epsom, Surrey.
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Its the fitting on the left hand side of the lower prod that I need. Is that going spare?
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Its the fitting on the left hand side of the lower prod that I need. Is that going spare?
Yeah, no probs. Come and get it some time, or get someone who's passing to drop in...
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Thanks, I will be in touch when I am nearer putting a rig on. Went for a sail in Beans at the weekend which was a great intro to cherubs and has given me new motivation to get FS finished, I am now totally hooked!
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Hull finished! Did the last little finishing bits today and now have a respectful looking hull. My new main came in the post today which is fantastic. Thanks so much to Ross for giving it to me and the folks at Alverbanks who did an excellent job on it.
Ironic that a certain St. Valentine is getting in the way of cherubing this weekend! Still, it shouldn't be too long before I hit the water in force.
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Looking good, well done team!
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Nice job! Can't wait to see him on the water
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First test fitting of the rig today. The boom seems a tad low.
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You need a strop round the boom from your clew eye, it should raise the boom up a couple of inches, and mean you can get lots of leech tension, the crew just has to duck, you know what beans is like, it is possible!
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The bottom of the luff has two eyes. Am I correct in thinking the bottom hole gets tied round the goseneck and the top eye is for the down haul?
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Yes - but tie the bottom one round the mast too.
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nearly there. Just need a few d rings to spread the kicker loads via a cascade.
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this is the finished kicker, it is hardly the most elegant solution but should be functional. If it proves unmanageable I will get a second swivel and lead one to each side.
Question for the knowledgeable types: Where do the jib cars go? I'm a bit lost.
JimC can we arrange picking up that prodder fitting?
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Due to Jim living further away from me than I had hoped I resorted to making a fitting. I had forgotten how nice aluminum is to work with. Just the Jib cars left to do now.
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Careful that you don't make Stanley look too nice, you'll make Ross want him back!
And it's much less fun when you beat the SMOD's in something that actually looks like a boat.
But seriously, good work! The boat deserves it.
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Does the prod still go to goose neck height even though I have dropped the boom down so much and please can someone tell me where the jib cars go? Im desperate to sail this thing now.
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Will knows the maths to work out the geometry. It's not hard. He talked me through it over the phone and I still cocked it up, hence the bits of sting with blocks on them. There are two circular wooden patches either side of the mast on the side decks, just behind the foredeck. These are where they were originally. You'll need them on the deck (not the foredeck) to get leach tension correct otherwise your pointing will suck balls. The string was a last minuet bodge at the nationals which worked but wasn't permanent. Don't bother with adjustable tracks for the sheets. It's expensive and waist of time.
I'll find a pic where they should be.
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Launch date tomorrow! If everything works that is.
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Sweet!
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Did you sort out the jib cars?
From the side make the line of the jib sheet hit the forestay a bit more than two thirds of the way up. (the ratio of the foot to the leech, strictly)
From the top, make the jib angle 11 degs off the centreline (but allow lots of play with the tracks).
Send a picture!
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Had my first sail in Stanley yesterday. Nice gentle force three to start off. All in all he is a well set up mild mannered beast. That was until I looked back from the wire at my mate who was helming at the time, to see he had the rudder in his hand and it wasn't attached to the boat! Splash! One bent rudder pintle. Also broke the track fitting for the prodder, the fitting I made stayed in tack though!
Still there are a few things I would like to change. I think it needs a gantry. The back end felt very cramped with the long tiller and pole filing what is quite a small space. There was also massive lee helm down wind and a very mild weather helm upwind. Perhaps a little more mast rake?
The jib cars were a bit of a guess. I will have a look and post some photos when I get the chance.
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Don't bother with adjustable tracks for the sheets. It's expensive and waist of time.
You Think? one of my biggest gripes with having a self tacker is how much more restricted you are with jib trim...
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Had my first sail in Stanley yesterday. Nice gentle force three to start off. All in all he is a well set up mild mannered beast. That was until I looked back from the wire at my mate who was helming at the time, to see he had the rudder in his hand and it wasn't attached to the boat! Splash! One bent rudder pintle. Also broke the track fitting for the prodder, the fitting I made stayed in tack though!
Still there are a few things I would like to change. I think it needs a gantry. The back end felt very cramped with the long tiller and pole filing what is quite a small space. There was also massive lee helm down wind and a very mild weather helm upwind. Perhaps a little more mast rake?
The jib cars were a bit of a guess. I will have a look and post some photos when I get the chance.
What kite were you using?
I thought about a gantry but It's just going to be extra weight. Shorten the tiller if you think it needs it. I think after a few outings you'll be used to it.
Although he is a very mild mannered boat compared to a modern Cherub, if it's not sailed flat you don't go fast and the helm becomes heavier very quickly. I want to come down for a sail!
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Jib track issue: Basically the adjustment is to allow you to get it right. After this there is minimal adjustment for conditions. This means that if you know where to put the turning block you can save a bit of money and weight by not having them. Most people do have adjustment to allow for the original setup.
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Not necessarilly weather helm. Cherubs are typically sailed with rather more side load on the rudder than most one designs. If you're not used to it the tug on the tiller caused by the sideload feels like weather helm. You only need to be concerned if the tiller is actually offset from the centreline with the boat bolt upright. The smart money is that its impossible to tell that from on the wire anyway. But for sure the slightest trace of heel will change things, and must be avoided.
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Had my first sail in Stanley yesterday. Nice gentle force three to start off. All in all he is a well set up mild mannered beast. That was until I looked back from the wire at my mate who was helming at the time, to see he had the rudder in his hand and it wasn't attached to the boat! Splash! One bent rudder pintle. Also broke the track fitting for the prodder, the fitting I made stayed in tack though!
Still there are a few things I would like to change. I think it needs a gantry. The back end felt very cramped with the long tiller and pole filing what is quite a small space. There was also massive lee helm down wind and a very mild weather helm upwind. Perhaps a little more mast rake?
The jib cars were a bit of a guess. I will have a look and post some photos when I get the chance.
also make 100% sure that the rudder is all the way down and stays down when you are trucking along.
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also make 100% sure that the rudder is all the way down and stays down when you are trucking along.
We had this problem with the trifle. The advice then was that the best way to hold the rudder on is to use a bungee style elasticated hold down. A piece of rope will always go slack 1/2 way through an outing. Ask Hayley how much the rudder falling on your head from an inverting boat hurts when you meet her :o
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Not necessarilly weather helm. Cherubs are typically sailed with rather more side load on the rudder than most one designs.
Umm... I know your Bistro was. I changed my Bistro so it didn't. When I had Trifle, if I remember that far back, the only awkward thing was the upside down mainsheet jammer and I can't remember any significant load on the rudder ( BTW she didn't have a gantry then and it was OK ). Loco certainly didn't have much rudder load, not like your Bistro anyway. So I wouldn't say it was typical, well not in my experience anyway.
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Elastic is definatly the best way to hold the rudder stock in place on the pintles, and can be tricky to do sometimes, I lost one rudder and wrecked the back of aqua twice from the stock migrating up and one of the pins comming out.
what I was meaning was ensuring the blade is all the way down, if it is slightly back then the helm will feel very heavy, over time the holes tend to wear and let the blade come back at speed.
I prefer to angle my rudder blades a bit forward to balance them a bit, it was particularly useful on Primal where there was a lot of side load on the rudder, but with the blade balanced the helm was still light.
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Elastic is definatly the best way to hold the rudder stock in place on the pintles, and can be tricky to do sometimes...
Caution.
I had a old I14 for high speed West Solent cruzin and used to use tensioned 6mm bungee to hold the rudder stock down on the pintles. The lift of the conventional rudder (no T-foil) was so great under speed that the rudder still lifted off. Much to the embarrasment of future Bermuda Gold Cup Winner and Olympian to be, Bonky Borrett & Stevie Mitchell who were towed home, back up the Lyminington river by the RNLI.
Laser 4000s tie their rudders on as their retainers are dodgy. Using 4mm prestretched or excel racing dynema and a 3:1 purchase so any slack in tieing off is 1 thirded seems to hold tight, in my experience. Be sure to tie over pivet point to ensure tiller still moves.
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I think I will remove the problem all together by using two female fittings for the top and a stainless bolt through the middle.
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Try to find a bolt rather than a machine screw.
A machine screw has thread going right up to the head. On a bolt the thread stops before the head.
A machine screw may mash up the inside of the gudgeons, because they are only alu.
A bit of string would be fine, and cheaper!
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On the ents which have a similar problem with a pivoting blade we either used a 2:1 purchase to hold the blade down as Pete described above or a short length of 4mm firbre glass rod put through the stock and the blade.
This is strong enough for sailing loads but will break if you hit something. tie it on to the stock with some wipping twine or similar. (and take a spare).
fibre glass rod can be found in 1.2m lengths at B&Q it will make many rudder pins. I was using this with either a wooden or carbon rudder stock.
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...we either used a 2:1 purchase to hold the blade down ... or a short length of 4mm firbre glass rod put through the stock and the blade.
A purchase will not work on a Cherub: at least not at 15 knots. Some kind of pin is the only way to go.
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Worked for me Jim, even at mach 10!
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Stanley has been mostly un-touched recently due to uni work and dinghy instructor course but he will be out with a passion over the next week. I have been experimenting with budget tiller extensions for trying twin wire which consist of bamboo with maplin's finest heat shrink tube over them for grip and also to make them look less like junk. I will post later on how it all goes. In the mean time, Who was out in a blue cherub over the weekend at BVSC? My dad said he saw one there and I didnt know there were any in kent south of Whitstable.
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BVSC? Bewl Valley at a guess.
It was probably Graham Bridle in his new Banshee!
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We were trying to "fly" under the radar, but looks like we've been rumbled by rs405 senior! We were at bewl saturday (windless) and sunday (not so windless) using the tail end of my winter membership there - rs, I live about 5 miles from Bewl but only use it in the winter as my opinion of it in summer becomes unprintable.
I will try to post some photos and more of a report soon, but sunday proved what I feared, fast, hard, fun and a younger mans game (although possibly not as young as Eddie) ! Oh, and that absolutely none of my carefully crafted systems work, so the boat is back home now for more hours of string and swearing.
Next view will be at whitstable, fri and sat of easter, I think weather permitting so that I dont scare myself off !
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We look forward to getting a whupping from you ;D
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I wouldnt assume thats a foregone conclusion, by any stretch Simon !
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Emergency Jib situation! The jib is at the sailmaker at the moment so which of the following would be a good substitute for an emergency sail this week: Wayfarer jib, wayfarer Genoa, rs vision jib, laser Bahia jib or none of the above?
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rs, I have a 97 rules Batt Jib that you are welcome to borrow if thats any good, PM me if you need it.
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A polite request:
Can we please stop hijacking every thread and making it a two way discussion between two people making private arrangements for sailing at Whitstable. I assume you have email? If not the forum includes a Private Message facility. Or I can recommend downloading MSN Messenger.
Back on topic. I would suggest doing your absolute best to borrow a jib from Graham. Otherwise I would suggest all the other jibs will be as poorly fitting as each other.
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Point taken. Sorry
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Batt jibs kick arse! Get on it!
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Weston Grand Slam - What did we learn? Well, in between Sarah's irrational fear of trapezing and my general incompetence and a truly horrible boat we didn't get very far (didn't enter). We also managed to hole the buoyancy tank and there is a rather nasty crack appearing between the foredeck and its supporting structure when rig tension is applied, this is rather worrying as i bought the boat under the impression that despite its age it was still "solid and strong". All I can say is the boat better produce the goods in a bit more wind instead of just filling up with water or else there might be a rather expensive bonfire!
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Oh dear! What happened to the tank?
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Either Sarah or myself must have put a foot through it. I'm not too fussed about that as I can fix it but the deck coming off under rig tension is a little more worrying.
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Weston Grand Slam - What did we learn? Well, in between Sarah's irrational fear of trapezing and my general incompetence and a truly horrible boat we didn't get very far (didn't enter). We also managed to hole the buoyancy tank and there is a rather nasty crack appearing between the foredeck and its supporting structure when rig tension is applied, this is rather worrying as i bought the boat under the impression that despite its age it was still "solid and strong". All I can say is the boat better produce the goods in a bit more wind instead of just filling up with water or else there might be a rather expensive bonfire!
Where is the crack? Any pics? We've got to organize a sail soon and the mast needs some setting up no doubt. It took me and Adem a while to learn how to sail him (after sailing a 3000 for a while) and we got rinsed in anything but a fart of breeze but we stuck at it and we got damn good at sending it when the breeze was on. Stick at it, it'll be worth it! Especially when you have the Solent to sail on.
Is this crack at the join between the ply sheet for the foredeck and the curved beam that goes between lowers? If so then just fill it and it'll be fine.
EDIT:On recollection, it took a while before we properly got it going regularly. Many Sundays mornings of December, January, February were spent getting up at 7:30 and getting the bus to King George to meet a frozen Flat Stanley and the promise of rain in the afternoon. Regularly sailing him (or any Cherub) is the key.
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It's between the ply and curved bit but goes from hairline crack to massive void with the application of rig tension which means something is moving where it shouldn't. I have found the boat very nice to sail when there is wind but in the light stuff it is an absolute pig. Won't tack and sinks. I ended up just taping the transom flaps shut for out last outing. Better wind this weekend though.
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Send a picture and we'll sort him out. You around on Sunday?
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I will be at Weston on Sunday. Why? Are you thinking of coming down?
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I may be available to help glue FS back together. Sounds like an emergency down there!
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Where are you... Maybe I can get down to take a look. That boat is *very* precious and we need to get her sorted out without anything too extreme going on... Trouble is I've got a big club event this weekend and Canoe Inlands next.
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I too can be around weekend evenings to help.
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Help would be appreciated. I shall post some pictures tomorrow.
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We will help with anything we can.
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Help would be appreciated. I shall post some pictures tomorrow.
See if you can get a digital camera with flash inside the tank and take photos in every direction you can so we can get a look at what's happening under the ply...
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Tom very kindly came and had a look and assures me it is not serious. I have been sailing all weekend and no pops or bangs. I think tom has photos to post at some point.
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Did you make the jump to light speed today?
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Not exactly light speed but a respectable 10kts on the GPS given the wind. I have a few tweaks to do in the evenings this week which include raking the rudder forwards a tad to try and lighten the helm a bit. Also start thinking of a taller mast as my current main does not match the telegraph pole I have at the moment and the boom is way too low with the current main. You have to be a ninja to tack and gibe!
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Well, had a cataclysmic kite run today at 17knts! Never thought Stanley wouuld get that quick, given the mish mash rig but all I can say is that it was absolutely amazing. The bad news is my phone is now missing, presumemed stolen from weston changing rooms. What a shame to end a good day on a bad note.
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Comparing Fuzzy with FS while sailing with Stu, it didn't feel any faster, just a bit lower than FS would have gone in the same conditions. It felt more "on the edge" and was harder to really get going. Any heel and we felt a little held back. As soon as we got it flat there was noticeable increase in speed and change in feel. In FS it was a lot easier to get into the groove and push the boat.
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I still have yesterdays kite run in my head! It makes the time in the garage worthwhile!
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Yeehah!
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Less garage more sailing please! Boat park repairs are fine during the season and a tidy up come winter time. This is coming from the guy who is going to be putting his boat into the garage fairly soon.
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Had a nice sail yesterday, good steady force 5 which was perfect. We are starting to get to grips with the cherub subtleties, gybing, windward hoists, apparent wind etc. However, one thing is still not quite there - tacking! We cant tack and keep boat speed at all. We have tried keeping the boat flat, rolling the boat, backing the jib etc but we just stop dead in the tack and have to accelerate out. Does anyone have any ideas?
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Due to the design of most of the cherubs being very flat, they invariably do slow down a lot in the tacks compared to other longer boats. We've basically found that the only way to get through and out the other side is to really throw the boat into tacks. You really can't come in slowly and tease it round, or roll it round unless it is really light, you really have to fully commit and go for it! In a single wire boat you really must tack it wire to wire, with the twin wire boats you need at least one out on the wire coming out the tack, and both if possible. Try bearing away slightly to get the speed up before going for height out of the tack. Obviously don't go over the top, but keeping the speed on is essential. Letting the jib out and then squeezing it back on when you speed up also helps.
Would be nice to hear other peoples views though. I'm by no means an expert!
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roll it round unless it is really light,
http://www.devboats.co.uk/halo.mov (http://www.devboats.co.uk/halo.mov)
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Sorry, what I said got a bit muddled, It meant to read that "we don't roll it round unless it is really light"!
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Finally got a picture of us sailing:
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Looking good!
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Nice. Did you drop before cowes?
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The power of Flat Stanley!
There are some v similar photos taken in 1994 of the same boat at teh same club in the same conditions on the website.
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Does anyone have an old ratchet block going spare I could have at a reasonable price? Hoisted yesterday to find the kite ratchet wasn't there. Missing, presumed dead.
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Let me have a look when I get home. I have an old Freddy one with loads of life left in it somewhere, I think it resides in my kit bag!
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Missing, presumed stolen I would think. :(
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I have got into the (bad) habit of leaving the old kite rigged on the boat. I know the two spin sheets decided to part company and presumably the block came undone from its fastening around the shroud base. So if anyone has a spare plese let me know.
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Flat Stanley has given us a huge amount of joy over the past year. Unfortunately my full time crew has decided to go back to 3 tonners. I dont know where the next step will take me (and my part time crew, Alex, who joined us at the nationals, but he is far more keen on cherubs than the full time one). However, sadly FS has to go to a new home. He is now safe in my (dry) garage waiting for the next couple to take on the next chapter of the Flat Stanley story. I know I have stated 'no offers' on the site but it could be less to the right home. FS has been a great blast and I am sad to see it go but I must thank Ross for such an excellent introduction to such a great class.
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The legend is on ebay! Tell your friends!
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cherub-Sailing-Dinghy_W0QQitemZ140361152068QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20091120?IMSfp=TL091120172001r13519
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Sale agreed. We are sad to see him go but it sounds like he is going to a good home. John is going to get on the forum soon to keep us in touch with the legend that is Flat Stanley.
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Congratulations to you both:
Rob for reaching a deal
And John for making a life changing decision!
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Life changing decision?... texting your seat number is what does that, isn't it? But I'm sure Mr Stanley would come a close second?