UK-Cherub Forum
Cherub Chat => Tech Chat => Topic started by: kerrgreg on November 10, 2016, 08:56:26 AM
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While the days are colder and events are fewer some cherubs are getting some love and attention.
To help each other with motivation, the opening of wallets and sticky fibers, what projects, improvements or repairs are you or your cherub undergoing this winter?
Ill start off with Madge who has another thread over here: http://www.uk-cherub.org/forum/index.php/topic,2252.0.html (http://www.uk-cherub.org/forum/index.php/topic,2252.0.html)- its mainly a strengthening and improvement project,
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Shiny is getting a new daggerboard (long) and a new case fitted by her daddy on 'The Island'
While she's away/over Xmas, I have a silly boom idea I hope to make (inbuild temple vang with an internal mainsheet system)
I feel I should finish the half compleated sail projects i have (2 mains and a jib) if I have time.
Hopefully it won't be a cold winter!
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Fuzzy is having the mast moved back 12 cm and 8cm higher from the deck level. The Jib track moved back 18cm. Lowers and D1 attachment to mast and deck beefed up. A bit of 'prodder' adjustment, and the wand attachment finished. Kicker Gnav sorted, Oh and a new jib.
"How hard can it be"
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Hi Ade,
Why are you moving them back?
I though that you had just moved them forward.
On A+E we are 450mm forward of the previous position which had the mast step 2000mm from the stem.
This position is great for foiling and much better than before in light winds.
Clive
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Loco needs a general tidy-up.
New luff track, varnish the spars, re-rope and maybe a re-paint. Might look at fitting a gas strut to the rudder stock too.
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The Squid will be having quite a lot of work this winter, hopefully......
Going to try get the keys to work and use the full height factory, enough room to have the rig up :)
1st up, stumping and a new mast. New mast needs a 2nd set of spreaders and some rigging, but I do have the mast and stump ready.
2nd is fix up my dagger board slot that seems to have punctured the crash box and make her water tight.
3rd is beef up the jib track and backing to take the loads of the larger jib.
4th is hopefully source a t-foil system and fit that.
After that, probably some cosmetic bits and bobs and possibly wheelie bars as I think Squid might be in serious need going down hill in any breeze.
If anyone has any advice for any of the above please do throw it my way.
Cheers
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...an internal mainsheet system
I had an internal (to the boom I presume you mean) mainsheet system back in the day on Halo, but when I had to replace the boom I moved to off the boom sheeting and dropped the internal run in favour of running externally with a cloth sleeve. The big challenge was alignment, specifically associated with getting the exit in the middle lined up with where it went next. It wasn't great with sheeting to a centre turret/jammer, and I never thought of a way of doing that with the angles required for off the boom. The other issue was the size of hole required in the boom for a block that would handle the large diameter sheets that tended to be used. Modern small diameter sheets will be much easier, that part at least.
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This thread needs pics! :)
Lots of interesting work happening! and lots of similar goings on.
Ade, will you be changing the main then? since presumably that will mean a bigger jib?
Jimmy, I might be making a T-foil if you want to get in on that? - Daemon foil most likely.
Has anyone got a cheap source of carbon tubes?
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Jim-
I plan to go the same route as some 18's and some 14's
See top picture:
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/166080
Rope from crew: though ratchet block, forwards to turning block (going 180 in to the boom)
Down boom to another block *1, 180deg back up to the from where it is tied off.
*1: this block then has a rope that starts on the hull, up to turning block on external of boom, aft to a through deck block, now inside the boom it ties off at the *1 block, mirrored for both sides.
Think here is a video of the kiddles 18 explaining it.
But I may have to have a MASSIVELY LONG boom for this to work!!
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we tried reverting Ronin back to this setup at nationals last year, we found that occasionally the rope would spin around itself inside the boom until it effectively jammed the main on leaving us unable to dump the main in 20knt winds..... not ideal so we removed it. i will add though we had the bridleentering the boom as one rope, perhaps the twin rope system Jamie is looking at implementing would solve this.
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Mr kiddle said to use swift core(?) apparently it doesn't twist.
Fingers crossed ey :P
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Thought I would throw in what I have planned for Eva (2661) over the winter months. Firstly a lighter launching trolley as the current one isn't the best fit for the hull shape and seems to be made out of the heaviest material known to man. Then improving the cockpit floor grip as I am reliably informed by my helm that an ice rink has a higher coefficient of friction than the floor back there does. Also cutting down the i14 main that came with eva to a more sensible size that allows for people to be in the boat at the same time as the sail is. Then following madges lead with some sanding down and new paint. Penultimately the addition of a t-foil rudder and second set of trapeze wires as they were included with the boat. Finally I need to get the rudder stock for the straight rudder foil repaired / replaced as it was damaged in a recent outing. So suggestions for repairers to get this done would be very helpful, as I don't time / skills to fix it myself.
(https://s17.postimg.org/qh563uezj/20161109_170116.jpg)
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Shame you dont have time as that looks like an easy fix couple of carbon strips would do it.
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made some good progress this weekend on Madge, details can be seen in my thread.
Who else has been working hard on their boats?
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Form this from Mr Patterson yesterday.
Eeeek! New toys!!!
P&B finally sent the parts for the boom. Blue foam sanding is coming a long slowly as there is a lot to sand off!
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A sharp potato peeler works wonders on blufoam :)
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I used a Lidl Japanese saw thing (£10), worked a dream, made light work of the 50mm foam. Only let down by my skill of keeping a straight line.
Just got the compound curve to do now. Might wait for the weekend so I can do it in daylight. :(
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Who else has been working hard on their boats?
I've been working hard looking at mine every time I go into the garage. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to improve it very much.
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Work will begin when I get my arse in gear, but hopefully this weekend.
One of the major issues is my leaky/punctured daggerboard slot. The case leaks, though only in to a crash box we think, so my plan was dig out around the slot to create a return, make a sleeve from the daggerboard case with tabs top and bottom, then fit this inside the existing slot. I have quite a lot of wiggle room around my board currently, so should fit in fine and would seal and repair the damage. In theory this makes sense in my head but may not be the best way of doing this.
Any thoughts/ideas/advice very welcome.
Cheers
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More wholes than swish cheese!
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Jimmy, here's some shots of shinys case exchange.
It's does mean you get some fibres on the inside of the hull. Can't quite compute how the deck is then put on again...
Also you have raised tunnel which wouldn't have to come off to acces the deck (which then would be cut in to)
No idea if this can be done in reverse. (Fibres going from inside the new case the outside of the hull, sounds ugly though)
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http://www.uk-cherub.org/forum/index.php/topic,351.0.html
Jimmy, see link above for some previous ideas on how to replace a daggerboard case. Yours looks seriously knackered. Don't know why you haven't sunk!
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Shiny is getting a new daggerboard (long) and a new case fitted by her daddy on 'The Island'
While she's away/over Xmas, I have a silly boom idea I hope to make (inbuild temple vang with an internal mainsheet system)
I feel I should finish the half compleated sail projects i have (2 mains and a jib) if I have time.
Hopefully it won't be a cold winter!
New board and Mods done, just need to drive to the island and collect, then re-attach fitting/made new board bag.
Boom should get its second hit either this week or next week.
Jib one just needs the straight edges of the leach to be concave, then a luff pocket.
Mast should be getting a dash of paint that i should have done back in April. (oops)
Somehow managed to get Squid in the garage to repair her mini bulkhead/kite system tie off point. Needs a lick of paint where i used the excess bog to fill some of the dings in her.
How's everyone else's projects going?
.... at least it hasn't been too cold a winter.
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New Year's resolution getting into action. Going for the final push on the Lost in Space rebuild. Lots of good stuff ordered from East Coast Fibreglass Supplies this evening. :)
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Postman came today with lots of goodies!
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Big box! what have you planned?
Hope to spend some time with madge this weekend
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I too will be spending time with Madge as she enters frensham boat works for a few weeks.....
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My winter project is looking good, not sure if I will be ready for foiling week though.
3D printer to arrive shortly to help finish the crazy bits.
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My winter project is looking good, not sure if I will be ready for foiling week though.
3D printer to arrive shortly to help finish the crazy bits.
Defiantly want to know more about this!!!
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Big box! what have you planned?
A cunning plan. A plan so cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a fox...
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Do spill Neil!
Meanwhile in the shire; we did hit number 2/3 on the boom.
This was the layer of unis heading all the way along the boom.
A few wrinkles to fair out this week, maybe another layer of uni under the join of blue foam to pvc pipe.
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Good Work Jamie,
Where will the goose-neck fit?
-- only took 3 attempts to post this?!
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Good Work Jamie,
Where will the goose-neck fit?
-- only took 3 attempts to post this?!
Lucky, this is my 5th attempt.
The gooseneck will go through the blue square protruding in pic 1. This forced the uni to 'flow' around the foam meaning no uni will be cut when I make a hole in the boom.
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Last weekend was a good weekend for us.
Saturday:
Jay and I applied the top layer of weave I've the boom, more importantly, the last layer.
Wrapped and bagged on Saturday. Jay had the AMAZING idea of using rubber bands instead of masking tape to hold the infusion mesh together. (Masking tape is a real time killer when you come to unpeal)
We decided to use a length of garden hose with holes drilled in it at the resin inlet to speed up the infusion.
We also had a second inlet halfway down the boom, again with holes drilled in to alow lots of resin in quickly.
This all worked really well with theninfusion. Before, getting the resin to flow around the bent bit of boom took nearly an hour. This time it took 10mins.
All very good. We opened the second inlet, still, everything is very good. But at the last meter it all slowed down. It was now we realised we forgot to add the spiral along the boom. After doing the maths. It would take 4 hours to do the last meter. We cut the bag, added a new drilled out hose, sealed the bag and let the resin flow in. 10minuets later we clamped off the resin and went to inspect the Williamson cocktail cabinet.
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Sunday:
Woke up late due to what we found in the cocktail cabinet.
Jay checked the infusion at 0800 to find it all solid except the last 300mm so wrapped it in the electric blanket. By 1000hrs it had all gone solid.
Next in the list was to remove the PVC pipe we have been using as a mandrel for the straight section of the boom.
We tried using torque (drill hole in exposed pipe, add steal rod, attach longer pole and rotate)
A few clicks and cracks, but nothing major.
Option 2: the Spanish mangenal (?) between Rosies tow hitch and my tow hitch, this didn't work either so we tried option 1 again, but bigger and better (video of Rosie breaking seal to follow(1) once the PVC pipe had spun we opted for option 2 again. Thankfully it worked, but had to reposition the cars as the rope became too slack, decided just to drive the tube out usuing the trusty Pearson-mobile.
Still need to desolve the foam out of it and fit blocks but early reports are amazed at the weight (maybe we are just used to lifting it with the pipe in)
1. No seals were hurt in the making of this boom.
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Good work Jamie, Will be interesting to see that in action.
Roughly would you be able to comment on how many hours and how much materials cost to build this?
Will you be taking orders?
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This looks great. Are you going to have much range of movement though? With the temple vang right on the end of the tube at 90 degrees to the boom will there be much room to pull it on before the vang hits the bottom of the mast (or stump / king post depending on your boat construction)? I'm sure you've measured it up in advance, just wondering. What did you use to melt out the blue foam, without damaging the laminate? I spent the weekend cutting through a lot of blue styrofoam with a jigsaw. It's really easy to cut, but creates a lot of blue dust! Lost in Space will be finished in time for this season if it's the last thing I do!!
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Thanks. But not all down to me. Team Williamson have been a great help along the way.
Will try and think up some accurate number when I can Greg.
Neil, good spot. Then back edge of the vang arm is 90deg, but the front edge keeps curving round so hopefully I will have enough movement. I did measure everything and model it all. Fingers crossed.
I'm using acetone. All of the blue foam that was in is now out. With almost no 'man power'
I started with a carving knife, but it was hateful and dusty. The hand saw was brilliant though, no dust at all!
Photos of the process all located here:
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/135457963@N04/sets/72157676041196524/
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First event of the season is getting close now, anyone other than me still beavering away in the workshop/garage?
My latest updates are http://www.uk-cherub.org/forum/index.php/topic,2252.msg23339.html#msg23339 (http://www.uk-cherub.org/forum/index.php/topic,2252.msg23339.html#msg23339)
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Me and Jay unexpectedly ended up in the same garage, non of that falling wetness to stop us!
Grip going on next week, then we can hopefully get back that silly sailing thing we do.
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Got the winter project of a mast refresh completed at the weekend. The sail went up the new track much eisier, but could not tell if the asjustment to spreader angles has made a difference as there was 0 wind and we just drifted on Sunday. Was nice and sunny though.
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Still working my way through the fairly sizeable list of things to do, Apparently Eva was yellow originally? Plus have started on a new rudder stock and acquired a replacement trolley with a new cradle, all working towards the start of the season in a few weeks. Hopefully we will be finished in time? Just got to paint hull, progrip, lacquer mast and remember where all the ropes go before then so no rush?
(http://i.imgur.com/QkA1RQ6m.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Usgo8kul.jpg)
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Looking good, are you hoping to make it to rutland?
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Unfortunately not with Eva, As i don't have towbar on my car. But i am still holding out hope for someone that needs a crew for rutland.
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Unfortunately not with Eva, As i don't have towbar on my car. But i am still holding out hope for someone that needs a crew for rutland.
If you do come, bring your stock and let us know. Could be a good time filler between sailing and pub!
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Finally getting my self together and doing some works on the boat. Mr P has kindly made me a jib track backing plate, Ive bought a new dagger board which is now taped and prepped for creating a new dagger board slot/crash box, pictures of the major surgery to follow, and the new carbon stick is also being fettled.
The new mast is an old 700 mast so obviously needs another set of spreaders adding, can people advise on position? Measurements from tip, or from lower spreaders would be great??
You can see in the picture where I have placed them, this is just above where the original shrouds came out, would this be about right? I have also marked with the white tape where my old rig spreaders were with lower spreaders lined up.
Any tips and advice always welcome.
Cheers
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Good work jimmy!
For reference madges spreaders are around 217cm apart
Keep up with work! :D
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Apparently there is a suggested percentage height figure quoted for the hounds in Bethwaite's High Performance Sailing 2 book. Unfortunately I don't have a copy right now! Upper spreaders would usually go just above the hounds. I have an extended / converted RS600 mast but it's currently on the garage roof. I might be able to take a tape measure to it this weekend.
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Everyone elses progress has prompted much work on eva (soon to be rechristened), too many photos to attach directly. But have put them in the album below:
http://imgur.com/a/Jvxdo
Just got to progrip deck then go sailing.
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Carwyn most impressed obviously gone to a good home and lovely sailing waters. Keep going.
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Nice one!
A contender for the best restoration prize!
Keep up the good work, I look forward to seeing the finished exhibit. (Especially in a 20+knot blow sending it like all bistros should!)
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Everyone elses progress has prompted much work on eva (soon to be rechristened), too many photos to attach directly. But have put them in the album below:
http://imgur.com/a/Jvxdo
Just got to progrip deck then go sailing.
Excellent work! looking very fresh!
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My done list:
Paint wheelie bars
Daggerboard bag
Remake tiller mech.
Attach trap lines
Refit rope/blocks ( downhaul, kite system, ratchet blocks)
Take mast off
Re grip deck
Re grip wing.
Re inforce gooseneck
Fit gooseneck
Reinforce tiller
Fix tillers
Still to do:
Progrip wheeliebars and kickbars.
Finish boom
Fit new sails
Try new long board.
All in all, the most beneficial things I've done have been getting the leak in the case fixed and progripping the deck. (So comfy!)
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Updated album with more photos, the good, bad and ugly (mainly bad and ugly).
http://imgur.com/a/Jvxdo
Almost time to go sailing.
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Great work there! Looking forward to seeing it out on the water
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Yesterday I gutted squid. No turning back now.
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More news from the front, went sailing in a lovely force 3/4 and flew the kite out to the race area. Then the breakages started, on one of the many swims when retrieving the kite my strong crew ripped the kick bar off the deck that one of the spinnaker blocks was attached to (which was unexpected). Also realised that the strops are too short affecting the tiller control, and a bigger kite is required for even more grin factor. But apart from that a good enjoyable start to the season.