UK-Cherub Forum
Cherub Chat => Introduction to Cherubs => Topic started by: Viper6994 on May 02, 2010, 02:45:50 PM
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Hi I am currently looking at buying a cherub, I am an ex cadet, 420 and 505 sailor and am looking to cherubs for a bit more excitment, could you recomend any for sale, I am currently looking to part buy one with a university friend for around £1200 in total, had been talking to the owner of sweet dreams but I fear he may have sold it before I could get hold of it. . .
Cheers Tye :)
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In the price range are Flying Kipper and This way up, i don't know much about the second but used to sail Kipper and it is a great boat to get into the class with, the dog hull is wider than the modern designs, but in the right hands can still be very quick, check national results for kipper and cheese before bedtime! It now lies with Phil in largs who has added a full height carbon mast and given the boat a proper sort out, a bargain at 1000!
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Kipper would be a good bet. I would have bought it my self but building won.
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Yes - Kipper is a well known boat, but do go and have a look at This Way Up. People are recommending Kipper because they know its a good bet. Other is an unknown quantity but could well be excellent!
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Hi Tye,
I am selling the Flying Kipper which is within your price range. I may be biased but I think that it is a great boat for someone new to Cherubs. It has a set of smaller sails for starting out and getting the hang of it and going out when it is honking, together with some bigger ones close to the current maximum size for the full on experiance.
Let me know if you want any more details.
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Hi guys thanks for all your replies! I had been looking at both the flying kipper and this way up, as a novice to the class is there any infomation re modifing these boats, and yes any additional infomation on flying kipper would be great, what is it constucted out of? What do you mean by close to the new rules, would it still be allowed to compete under these sails or is it purley for flying fun?
Appologies for my spelling in advance
Tye
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If you want to see a prime example of what is possible with a dog hull check cheese before bedtime's boat page http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub/test/doku.php/boats/2645 The current sail rules allow 15.5 square metres maximum upwind sail area, so close to current rules means it will be a bit less than the maximum, but still perfectly legal
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Hi Tye,
The Kipper is mostly built from glass over foam, there is some carbon and kevlar reinforcement in high stress areas. I have done quite a few repairs and reinforcements while I have had the boat and I would say that it is now structurally pretty sound. I have been sailing in some big winds so it is well tested.
It has an ex RS600 carbon mast that is to the max height of the latest rules. For sails it has a big 05 rules mainsail, I said it is close to full 05 area as with the size of the jib it will be slightly under area. The slight lack of area will not make a huge difference in speed, at least compared with the difference that shiney new sails would make.
The big kite is from memory 20sqm, compared to the max 21sqm again it will not make a massive difference in speed.
The class is a development class so the rules give the maximum sail area, if you want you can race with less area, and if you are light this may be an advantage.
I have got a lot of sails and bits and peices so if you are interested it would probably be best if you gave me a call on 07943869739 and I can describe things better.
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Myself and my co-buyer have sat down and discussed this (over nandos), altough it looks well constructed and well equiped we dont feel 100% confident on hull, we would love to spend time modifing it to the level of cheese before bedtime but as students we have no equipment, resources or a shed to do this in. . .
We are in no way ruleing this out but we still may be in with a shot sweet dreams which has been modified more to what we are looking for.
Also we cannot seem to find any kind of bouyancy tanks, have we missed something?
I hope this has not looked like we are ignoring advice, we are still trying to keep as many options open as possiable if circumstances change in which we could store a boat we will definatly reconsider buying the flying kipper. :)
Is there anything we should know about sweet dreams or is it just more modified towards the 2005 rules than the flying kipper?
Cheers Guys
Tye and Jason
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the aforementioned "cheese before bedtime" will be on the market after the nationals, but i fear it will probably be out of your price range as will be needing money for next boat (prob around £3750)
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Ah yeh well that might be a little high for now, some monster saving might cure that but im sure beer money will win that fight. . .
:P
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i think ill have those problems in a few years also
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Does any one know were I could buy a 2005 rules mast, boom (if it different), main, jib and spinni??
Cheers
Tye
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Nowhere for less than any of the boats already sugested!
Where are you based?
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Im currently at uni in portsmouth, non tearm time I am based near Stone in essex.
I am contemplating buying a 97 rules and converting it, too hard? ???
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Tye,
What do you think is more modified on Sweet Dreams than on Kipper?
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The buoyancy tanks in the DOG design are beneath the false floor and extend front to back split into three seperate tanks as per the current rules. Some where built originally with side tanks as well but this makes the boat float very high in the water when capsized (bit like a 420). Having owned sister boat Slippery When Wet and having sailed against the kipper I would say that she is a good boat for the price. the dog design makes a good starter Cherub and is a bit easier to sail but still no slouch off wind. Slippery would easily hit 16 knots off wind with the smaller 97 rules rig in a force 4. That was with a crew new to cherubs in the front. A lot of grin factor!
A new set of sails will cost around £1400 but Hydes may still be doing sails at £700 which is very good value. A new C-tech mast will set you back about £1000 depending on the exchange rate and import tax.
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From looking at the pictures, Sweet dreams has extended wings on the side and a better, more forward jib point.
My appologies I had assumed the kipper had no underfloor tank as it looks as if it just one layer and I could not see any point of entry like a bung or hatch?
Am I right in saying I could pick up a 2nd hand 800 or 600 mast that would do the job? like wise with the sails?
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Kipper has a full height carbon mast and a snout. If you really wanted max 05' rules all you would need would be a suit of sails. Phil will be able to answer all your questions.
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Does anyone have an email adress for him please?
Tye
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As they say in car ads the list of options on the Kipper is too long to include, I have two boats and a whole load of sails, and other equipment, and can sell the kipper boat with quite a lot of different stuff depending on what you want.
It would be best to talk I know you are having phone problems but do you use skype?
I have emailed you seperatly
Phil
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Hi, yes I do would be a good idea. I wont be able to talk yet im currently in the libary revising. . . I see if my skype still works and re post my add
Cheers tye
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97 rules is serious grin territory to start with.
05'ing from there is possible. There will almost certianly be a slot at a sticky weekend to build a mast. Maf may even comply and post a shot of the latest ME-Tech to come off the production line???
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To translate the last post. Roland has made his own masts for the last year. I think he has made two to date 1 for each of his boats. He is keen to try some more to add new ideas. Material costs are about £250.
His masts use the same dimensions as the C-Tech which he has christened the Me-Tech.
I wouldn't worry about not having full 05 rules sail area. Being at the lighter end of the weight range we opted for less area than rules allow on our new boat and it certainly shifts.
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When is the next sticky weekend?
I wouldn't worry about not having full 05 rules sail area. Being at the lighter end of the weight range we opted for less area than rules allow on our new boat and it certainly shifts.
Phil, How much sail is E-Numbers carrying?
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Currently we are weighing in at 147kg so feeling we are deff more suited to 05 rules, the 505 was a little overpowered for us in more than a force 4. . .
kind of worried going under the max 05 speck will let us down, not sure however. . .
How transferable are rigs between boats?
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I'm pretty sure phil's sails are around 14.5m^2. I made them pretty much the same size as the ones on atum bom. I'm not so sure there is much point in going all the way to max size. I never felt under powered even when weighing in at 160kg. The only space on most the rigs to make the 'white' sail area big enough is at the head and up the leech. The head on atum bom was just over 1m wide from memory, i'm not so convinced that the extra area in the leech wouldn't be draggy.
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I'm pretty sure phil's sails are around 14.5m^2. I made them pretty much the same size as the ones on atum bom. I'm not so sure there is much point in going all the way to max size. I never felt under powered even when weighing in at 160kg. The only space on most the rigs to make the 'white' sail area big enough is at the head and up the leech. The head on atum bom was just over 1m wide from memory, i'm not so convinced that the extra area in the leech wouldn't be draggy.
I've always liked the idea of a total sail area. What you don't put on the White you stick on the coloured.
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+1, but it would probablyu make the fleet slightly more split up, with '97 rules white sails on some boats and absaloutely mahusive (yes i intend to spell it that way) spinnakers, would probably change the class, and possibly not for the better.
"all opinions i express are my own and probably total trash"
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+1, but it would probablyu make the fleet slightly more split up, with '97 rules white sails on some boats and absaloutely mahusive (yes i intend to spell it that way) spinnakers, would probably change the class, and possibly not for the better.
"all opinions i express are my own and probably total trash"
I don't know if it would split the class more than it is. In reality it would help make the older boats more competitive. The argument against has always been about measurement issues and biasing toward lightweights.
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i was trying to avoid the lightweight issue, as me and digby are quite light :)
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the total sail area would suit light weights in MHO.
1997+ upwind area and a mahoosive spinny would allow light weights to sail as fast upwind and sail deeper down wind at the same speed.
With the mast cap rule it would be difficult to go much higher than the 2005 upwind area without the rig becoming draggy and a smaller spiny wouldn't help heavies.
Without a mast cap rule more differences could be tried but then we risk an arms race in rig design.
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i was thinking along those lines exactly phil, just wasnt able to put it well into words