UK-Cherub Forum
Cherub Chat => Sailing Stories => Topic started by: phil_kirk on September 01, 2009, 01:45:44 PM
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Slippery got a second in one of Thornbury's pursuit races. That is second to the A class cat. We had a close race all the way with a Buzz in the relatively light airs.
The buzz was obviously better short tacking up the shore to keep out of the tide and could sail deeper down wind. We gained a bit on the two close hauled/close reach legs but finally got past on a beat when we proffited from the wake of the rescue boat and then had a close gybing dual on the last run. To rub it in the wind picked up a few knots on the final two straight reachy legs and we planned away opening up a safe gap. Quite pleased since we haven't ben in the boat for seeral months. The poor toppers started 23 minutes before and had to hug the shore on the seecond leg to stay out of the tide and sailed a lot more distance.
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Am a little confused about events as I sit overlooking Utrecht, but I think team Trim joined Thornbury last night. Many thanks to anyone who was dragged from a night infront of the tele on our behalf?
Really looking forward to getting down there, from the sticky weekend pictures it looks like it will be a tight call as to if Phil and Sarah's E5 will get there before ours!
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Phils lobbying was pretty impressive :D
TSC is always keen to welcome new members who are actively sailing (or building!!) in a class. The prospect of a having a Cherub fleet within our existing fast handicap fleet is great for the club and we cant wait.
We are of course also working on the RS700 fleet now that we have converted Mr Unerman to our strange singlehanded ways.
Paul
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....converted Mr Unerman to our strange singlehanded ways.
This is a family show!
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Sarah asked if I told them that R was a bit mad. (others call it infectious enthusiasm).
i said that I forgot that bit.
I also forgot to say that EJ capsizes a lot.
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I suspect you'll find E-numbers falls over occasionally ;D . By the way has she been launched yet?
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I also forgot to say that EJ capsizes a lot.
With the improved jib car we may not need to capsize to tack....
By the way has she been launched yet?
Yes , do you have a target date? If you fancy an un-organised balst somewhere I'm sure a few will come to provide moral support.
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We could even be persuaded to bring your Japanese brother. However be warned he does like a good winter sleep in a cosy garage.
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Sarah asked if I told them that R was a bit mad.
I assure you he is not. Nowhere near.
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Sarah asked if I told them that R was a bit mad.
I assure you he is not. Nowhere near.
However, there is a saying which goes "Old Psychiatrists never retire, they just hand over the keys."
(Will, you are not permitted to use the word "crossword" in your response. ;))
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Old anaesthetists never die, they just count to ten and slowly drift away....
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usually only one, but the bulb has got to *want* to be changed.
[its almost inevitable that someone will type in the joke whilst I'm typing in the punchline...]
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usually only one, but the bulb has got to *want* to be changed.
[its almost inevitable that someone will type in the joke whilst I'm typing in the punchline...]
Almost!
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There may well be one more Cherub down there next year! I will be moving to that part of the world if the job comes to something.
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look forward to it.
I will happily support your proposal for membership at Thornbury if you choose to join us.
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Atum, E-Numbers adn EJ went for a pleaseant ride on the escalator last night. Wind dropped as we launched and the promising 3 descended into a cunning drifter of boat vs tide. The racing was a sailing version of utlimate wipout - only those lucky enough to score a gust on their voyage from the shore shelter to the windward mark actually got around it, failure to round delivered the boat back to the start line. Great enterainment value to watch, a ba$%^rd to sail.
Atum fought gamely in conditons not entirely suited, but gave the Kirks a run for thier money retiring after one lap. We think E-Numbers retired after hitting the windward mark twice (turns took them past the gybe mark). EJ had a new mast and not enough uppers on, consequently had issues tacking (like 100m backwards in the tide at every tack trying to pop the main). After an hour we technically failed to reach the windard mark. EJ retired happy to have a new stick in place and being the only Cherub present to not capsize.
Looking like next weekend will be a hoot.
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Sounds great. I am hoping that I can get a finished Thunderbird 4 to Thornbury within the next year.
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Fingers crossed Sundays forecast of ZERO improves!
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Too many negative thoughts moriaty...
Thorbury appears to generate it's own wind.
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We technically finished the race last Sunday.
It was quite light and Sarah comented that we were only just keeping up with the church on the shore for about 10 minutes. We found that we had rigged the kite halyard inside the elastic around the jib and so only has a fractional kite to play with. The wind died on the second lap and several boats didn't make the windward mark. We sailed a bit further up the shore before tacking out to the mark. We did drift onto the windward mark whilst trying to round it. Once we had cleared ourselves around the correct side of the mark we did our penalty turn. We capsized next but were the right way up for the gybe mark. using the apparent wind from the tide we were able to sail towards the leeward mark until we reached some moving air. Finished not too many minutes behind the 800's after 2 hours of racing.
We did find that the E5 drifts really well and can make way in the very light to on wind conditions. Our capsize was just due to limited static stability coupled with high roll damping (not correcting a heel early enough.
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We had a great sail in E-numbers on Sunday against some thornbury 700's 800's and Atum. The wind started breezy and dropped through the evening but with a couple of sudden reappearances just to keep us on our toes. EJ was there but was concentrating on improving her mast issues and overcoming illness.
We think we are starting to get the hang of our stead and were staying closer to the 800's Atum and even some 700's. Our competativeness was helped by not having to short tack up the shore against the tide. Instead the race started with a white knuckle 2 sail race reach to Bennets. We caught Atum after their swim and were looking good until we swam on the second lap. Close behind Atum on the final run we were able to sail lower and go for the next mark. We dropped for the mark (the next leg had been too tight for the kite previously). Atum proved that the leg to the finish was kiteable and opened out a few boat lengths for the finish.
The second race started with breeze which fell off as dusk approached. In the lighter airs we appeared to stay closer to the 800's upwind. We crossed the line at 9:30 ish and were packed up for a late drink.
While we are still a little wobbly we are making progress and getting better at ballancing all the forces.
Looking forward to the nationals.
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We had a fun sail at Thornbury on Sunday. Lots of two sail reaches in the course but we are getting more confident with sailing the boat. Our leeward mark roundings from reach to beat went well, gently hardening up onto the new course at speed with the racks pasing over the low mark.
We were quite happy in the boat, that was until the trapeeze lines untied themselves from the mast and I fell in via the tiller extension. It appeared that the 4mm dynema at the top of the mast had come unspliced through repeated load cycles. Everything was recovered and we managed to sail in unaided although it feels weired not to have trapeeze lines next too you.
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Sorry we were there Monday not Sunday. it all gets a bit confusing after a while!
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Shame you missed Sunday, it was brill. Exactly the reasons we joined Thornbury - big expanse of water, a steady big wind and a heart thumping with joy.
Sunday was a steady force 3, with gusts of more. The sort of "wind tunnel" breeze that makes Cherub sailing so fun that we decided not to race. Instead we did lots of tacks against the stopwatch whilst Atum went around the cans like a rocket ship (finishing ahead of the entire mono hull fleet).
Things ended badly for us when the t-foil hold-down rope chaffed through and a multiple swimming session followed. We learnt lots from this session, most importantly that the boat is fast when everything works, we have a "it's windy" tack we can rely on and that H is too light to counterbalance the wind when the boat is static - from force 3 upwards we will now be water-starting as standard. The new retracting bridle and altered spinni fly-away worked at treat when recovering from a swim.
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Bums on racks when coming out of a tack or gybe is a must for us too.
Glad your enjoying the sailing and that the boat is working better now.
You may be pleased to know you are pictured in yachts and yachting September edition in an article about insurance cover. The picture was taken at last years nats after your mast had folded. I wanted to tell the magazine that there would have been no insurance claim made and that you had made the thing your self. if you get bored you can tell them yourself.
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Will anyone be at Thornbury over the weekend? I am just settling in to the new area and would be keen to come and have a look round the club if there are any Cherub sailors there to show me.
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We are not there but Tim unerman may be.
The gate is opposite the anchor inn and is only opened by members for access. If you hang around when people are arriving you can get in.
Alternatively park in the car park by the gate and walk up the drive at any time.
Sailing over the weekend
Sat first start is 15:05
Sun First start 16:30
You can expect people to be arriving about an hour before these times and people will be there for ages after.
Sociable lot.
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While we have been getting to grips with the 05 rules cherub we have spent less time sailing the ent. but in recent events we have really gone forward in the ent. More boat speed all round the course. As an example we were able to beat 4 usual top 10 placers or national champions on the weekend with a race to spare. Even more trophies to engrave now. Success can be expensive.
Has anyone else noticed that their cherub sailing is paying off in other classes?
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This is a good point Phil. I have noticed that after sailing the Cherub it definitely makes your boat handling superior in other classes. I think the result of this is that you can focus on sailing rather than worrying about keeping the boat upright.
I think of it this way... sailing an 05 Cherub in 12 knots of breeze is about equivalent of sailing most other boats in 20+. Another thing which I feel has made a difference is that with the Cherub you do most of the steering with sails and weight balance, this is because you have to. When you transfer this into more 'normal' boats you end up fighting the rudder a lot less and so end up going faster!
Maybe this explains why when I have sailed 2303 the rudder has survived... let my Dad have a go and it broke! ;-)
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Saturday:
Blasting about in lots of wind in Born Slippy. Managed to tame the boat for the second race when the wind was picking up further. Sarah had a go at helming but learnt the hard way that the helm gets quite sensitive at speed while the crew gets less sensitive!
Sunday: with a few Kirk refinements. Born slippy was much more organsied. Having learnt a bit about Born Slippy we entered one of Thornbury's long distance races. Most of the way to Sharpness and back. Sarah was helming, I was crewing and trying to do tactics, imparting my Cherub helming experience and being my normal competitive self. It was relatively light winds with a little bit of fordecksville interspersed by some gusts and some calms. Tactically we were brilliant, ( well after the start anyway) and got ahead of atum before the second mark and caught the 29er by half way.
Atum had a guest helm of a well known Thornbury 700 sailor and a guest crew of a well known Chew cherub helm. They were on a learning curve as well as us.
There were some great moments where we we storming along either up wind or two sail reaching with me right out on the wire, bow out of the water but most of the two and a half hours we were sitting on the side deck. The race was won by a Feva! So a little more work to do.
Thanks go to Roland and hayley for lending us Born Slippy. We've had a great weekend sailing her.
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Sunday:
The team EJ camped in order to be ready for the 9am start. Serious airbed malfunction at 3-4am meant canceling the alarm and the inevitable sleep in till an hour before the start. We binned racing for breakfast and had a cup of tea watching the start. After the boats headed out of sight the wind follwed them, spent an enjoyable couple of hours in the sun re-commissioning the rig and trying different sails on the mast. We appear to be nearest the Hyde...
Project garage is progressing. Spent the afternoon tidying up the site, we now have a stop to work whilst our neighbors work out how their property actually stands up (Gabion retaining wall). Although none of the new walls is higher than 3ft, the garage currently contains a BMW, a double stacker, Badgers and there is still room for a few hundred bricks in piles.
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The garage is huge and will make a brilliant sticky weekend venue. We hope the retaining wall issue doesn't take too long to resolve and R &H can feel sure that next door won't suddenly come to stay in their garage.
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Thanks Phil for not going into too much detail about my efforts on Atum.
So the story goes that during a conversation a month or so ago Paul (Croote) asked if I'd ever sailed a Cherub. I said no and that at 84kg was unlikely to ever be competitive, so he said after the nationals he'd let me have a go. I was on business in Paris last week, when out of the blue, I get a txt message asking if I'd like to helm Atum, so I said yes.
Turning up at TSC yesterday morning with an 8kt forecast it wasnt looking great, but then there had been more wind than forecast on Saturday and it was picking up from nothing when we arrived.
Anyway we got going or rather drifting off of the line and it became clear that Atum is not a light wind boat! Up the first leg we held Born Slippy behind us and stayed with the 29er but the cross tide leg killed us. At times we were sailing head on to other boats on opposite tacks such was the variance in wind direction. We lost out about 1/2 mile to Phil & Sarah, but on the next downwind leg reeled them in, holding them all the way to the bottom mark where we managed to get a couple of boat lengths in front. The long upwind leg back towards Olbury power station caused us a few problems. Paul Croote getting stuck between the jib and the mast causing the first swim of the day! Eventually we got our act together and in one 20second puff managed to get twin-wiring and upto 11.7kts before sailing into a hole and binning it to windward. Boy do Cherubs stop quick and tip to windward quickly! A couple of tacks on windshifts later, and we had recovered to catch the 29er and were gaining on Phil and Sarah. The final downwind leg to the club saw us gaining quickly on Phil and Sarah until another hole and another windward flop dropped us in. Luckily we recovered from that and scraped past both the 29er and Born Slippy to just beat them over the water.
So what did I think?
Atum is a lovely well sorted boat and is clearly quick once there is enough wind to twin wire, but if your sitting in, it doesnt like it.
The lightness of the rig means that sailing into holes can cuase problems in that the boat comes over on you very quickly, and the hull shape and rig-layout on Atum produces enormous amounts of lee-helm as the boat comes over on you, making it even harder to get back in the boat. I'm assured by Paul that these problems go away when sailed in decent breeze, so I will be back for another go.
Sailing upwind at the back of the wing felt odd with the t-foil wound on and perhaps because the mast is short, the forward pull on the wire is strong. On my 700 I've got much longer distances between the front and back of the wings but the fwd pull is nothing like it. The only way to keep leverage on is to engage the toe loops which is an alien thing for me. I only use them on the 700 when maxed out downwind in big breeze.
Before sailing the boat, I thought it would be twitchy and unstable, but its not. It actually ok, certainly no worse than the 29er. Its got quirks like the 700 but then that may be particular to the Slug shape in terms of chine steering but once up and running I reckon you could get it into a groove comfortably.
So I'll definately have a go again, although Paul is selling Atum now, (great boat for anyone interested in getting a well sorted boat without all the hassle of building your own).
Paul
RS700 844
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The light flooky conditions at Thornbury on Sunday was most Cherub unfriendly I have sailed in this year! of course it would be the day that Paul had a helm of Atum "D'oh!". He did a good job despite my ham-fisted crewing. Hopefully his next Cherub experience will be in better conditions.
Thanks Phil for not going into too much detail about my efforts on Atum.
So the story goes that during a conversation a month or so ago Paul (Croote) asked if I'd ever sailed a Cherub. I said no and that at 84kg was unlikely to ever be competitive, so he said after the nationals he'd let me have a go. I was on business in Paris last week, when out of the blue, I get a txt message asking if I'd like to helm Atum, so I said yes.
Turning up at TSC yesterday morning with an 8kt forecast it wasnt looking great, but then there had been more wind than forecast on Saturday and it was picking up from nothing when we arrived.
Anyway we got going or rather drifting off of the line and it became clear that Atum is not a light wind boat! Up the first leg we held Born Slippy behind us and stayed with the 29er but the cross tide leg killed us. At times we were sailing head on to other boats on opposite tacks such was the variance in wind direction. We lost out about 1/2 mile to Phil & Sarah, but on the next downwind leg reeled them in, holding them all the way to the bottom mark where we managed to get a couple of boat lengths in front. The long upwind leg back towards Olbury power station caused us a few problems. Paul Croote getting stuck between the jib and the mast causing the first swim of the day! Eventually we got our act together and in one 20second puff managed to get twin-wiring and upto 11.7kts before sailing into a hole and binning it to windward. Boy do Cherubs stop quick and tip to windward quickly! A couple of tacks on windshifts later, and we had recovered to catch the 29er and were gaining on Phil and Sarah. The final downwind leg to the club saw us gaining quickly on Phil and Sarah until another hole and another windward flop dropped us in. Luckily we recovered from that and scraped past both the 29er and Born Slippy to just beat them over the water.
So what did I think?
Atum is a lovely well sorted boat and is clearly quick once there is enough wind to twin wire, but if your sitting in, it doesnt like it.
The lightness of the rig means that sailing into holes can cuase problems in that the boat comes over on you very quickly, and the hull shape and rig-layout on Atum produces enormous amounts of lee-helm as the boat comes over on you, making it even harder to get back in the boat. I'm assured by Paul that these problems go away when sailed in decent breeze, so I will be back for another go.
Sailing upwind at the back of the wing felt odd with the t-foil wound on and perhaps because the mast is short, the forward pull on the wire is strong. On my 700 I've got much longer distances between the front and back of the wings but the fwd pull is nothing like it. The only way to keep leverage on is to engage the toe loops which is an alien thing for me. I only use them on the 700 when maxed out downwind in big breeze.
Before sailing the boat, I thought it would be twitchy and unstable, but its not. It actually ok, certainly no worse than the 29er. Its got quirks like the 700 but then that may be particular to the Slug shape in terms of chine steering but once up and running I reckon you could get it into a groove comfortably.
So I'll definately have a go again, although Paul is selling Atum now, (great boat for anyone interested in getting a well sorted boat without all the hassle of building your own).
Paul
RS700 844
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Armed with Badger's main, team EJ headed down to Thornbury this evening. Hmmmmm. Blowing a steady 20-30mph and gusting the odd old boot and poorly secured dog. I am assured there were flying sheep, but to see them you'd need equipment to see across the channel.
We rigged Born Slippy, but come launch time we watched the RS700s depart the shore and took the sensible decision to pack EJ for her move to her winter club instead. Strange as 12 months ago we would have been 1st on the water in winds like that...
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Hi Paul,
Boy do Cherubs stop quick and tip to windward quickly!
The lightness of the rig means that sailing into holes can cuase problems
Before sailing the boat, I thought it would be twitchy and unstable, but its not. It actually ok, certainly no worse than the 29er.
So what did I think?
Two opposite things at once? ;D
Glad you had a good time. The lightness of the rig is because lightness is a good property in a rig. The forward pull is because the trim angle can be less when maxing it downhill. Before T foils loops were only rarely used, now needed all the time. Also if you lengthen your trap loads it can make being right back much easier. Also the ride is much more violent on a Cherub (It is noticeable how much tamer the SK4 is, and that is only a foot longer - and loads faster). The other thing is there is no crew on a RS700 to interfere with where you want to put your front foot!
As to the twitchiness, it is all relative: The rig is (much) less than half the weight of similar sized SMOD rigs. There are huge differences in roll inertia. Its more like sailing a board, though it looks like a boat.
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All Paul's comments are relative to previous experience of which he has lots in Skiff type boats. The differences betwen a cherub and a 700 are therefore different to what someone else might experience coming from another class.
I think Sarah found that the helm on a cherub is much more sensitive than the byte probably due mainly to the greater boat speed making the rudder more effective. The range of boat speed is also higher than she is used to as a helm.
The feel of any class of boat can be changed by setting up the rig differently or using different sails.
I have noticed at low speed (drift mode) that the T foil provides a lot of roll damping requiring you to move to correct a roll before you think you need to. Consequentially you can move too much and set up an osscilation. At speed this effect appears to reduce or perhaps the planing forces on the hull masks the damping provided by the t foil.
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Your right Phil, if I'd sailed the boat having come from Enterprises or Lasers my comment would certainly have been different. For me the speed certainly isnt an issue and neither really is the sensitivity of the rudder. In fact in hindsight I go as far as saying the rudder was suprisingly un-responsive, but then I'm used to the 700 and the 600 where the blade is enormous and twitchy as hell at speed. What you will see with the T-foil is that any roll should be damped out when you are moving at any speed, as roll will increase the apparent AoA on the correct side of the T-foil therefore increasing lift and providing a restoring force. For the brief period where we were really going the boat felt rock steady to me, with a little less feel in the rudder than I'm used to.
Having sold my 49er to he who shall not be named, and then caught up with him at the following Dinghy Show when he proclaimed that he'd sold the 49er because it was too stable, I assumed the Cherub would be super-twitchy, but I dont think it is. As I said the only issue is trapezing in the loops upwind feels odd and could be more comfortable with the trapeze attachments moved further up the mast. That and a bit of time in the boat!
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What you will see with the T-foil is that any roll should be damped out when you are moving at any speed, as roll will increase the apparent AoA on the correct side of the T-foil therefore increasing lift and providing a restoring force.
Leaving aside whether it is actually damping or risking 'terminal oscillation', can you explain the above please? I have expended some energy trying to work it out and I can't....
...thanks!
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yeh I got the boat is more stable with t than with out. But that is like saying a plain is more stable with wings.
I got lost at the explanation.
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Explanation time:
If the boat experiences a sudden roll to leeward in a gust, the windward half of the t-foil will effectively be lifted up in the flow, and the leeward side will drop in the flow. The flow vector on the windward side will then have a vertical component to it thus reducing the apparent angle of attack that the foil has to the oncoming flow, and therefore reducing lift on this side of the foil. On the leeward side the foil is pushed down and therefore the apparent flow vector is coming from below and ahead of the foil rather than straight on. This therefore increases the apparent angle of attack and thus increases the lift on this half. The combination of these forces provides a rolling moment which opposes the roll induced by the gust. There will be other effects due to the junction between the horizontal and vertical foils but in principle you will see some form of roll damping. It is however feasible that if you have full T-foil wound on and experience a violent roll then the leeward side of the T-foil may stall, which will reduce the damping effect and will probably pitch the nose down harder and give you a load of lee-helm.
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On a slug hull, the shape of chine line and the chine angle to the topside, mean that when the boat heals the bow is lifted. As the bow lifts this increases the AoA.
Maybe too simple?
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Explanation time:
If the boat experiences a sudden roll to leeward in a gust, the windward half of the t-foil will effectively be lifted up in the flow, and the leeward side will drop in the flow. The flow vector on the windward side will then have a vertical component to it thus reducing the apparent angle of attack that the foil has to the oncoming flow, and therefore reducing lift on this side of the foil. On the leeward side the foil is pushed down and therefore the apparent flow vector is coming from below and ahead of the foil rather than straight on. This therefore increases the apparent angle of attack and thus increases the lift on this half. The combination of these forces provides a rolling moment which opposes the roll induced by the gust. There will be other effects due to the junction between the horizontal and vertical foils but in principle you will see some form of roll damping. It is however feasible that if you have full T-foil wound on and experience a violent roll then the leeward side of the T-foil may stall, which will reduce the damping effect and will probably pitch the nose down harder and give you a load of lee-helm.
That sounds about right, I am not sure if the effect would be greater with the T at the bottom rather than the middle. I noticed more of a difference in roll damping with the Patterson 7 and t in the middle compared with Pocket Rocket with the t at the bottom.
It also shows why there are so many issues with T's breaking off, with the twisting of the t joint.
When I was sailing with a damaged T joint at the nationals, I could hear some cracks if the boat rolled a lot, also when I did any sharp steering, as there was a difference in speed between the ends of the T
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Our first outing at thornbury this year. Following three days at Weston we were glad to see similar conditions at thornbury in which to further practice Light air cherub sailing.
The race was one of Thornbury's long distance series the Bernie Scoop. This involved starting at TSC and sailing to wollaston Pill upriver and on the other bank of the severn. Once all boats had crossed a temporary line at Wollaston we re-started and raced back to TSC.
In a northerly it was a beat out and a run back although to make things more interesting we started the outbound leg with a running start to a mark before heading upwind.
The first leg involved lots of gybing to avoid the tide and all the other boats. We rounded the turning mark behind the YW Dayboat. Then it was single string and then twin string sailing across the river. With t foil on and the flat water we were really shifting and started closing on the higher pointing and better starting 700's. It became gusty and shifty on the other bank and in the strongest tide quite bumpy. At times Sarah was on the fore deck and others we were twinning. We reeled in the 700's finishing in front of the 3rd one sailing by Tim U.
While waiting for the other boats to finish we landed on the mud banks of woolaston pill. Some made a better job of this than others. most people and most boats got quite muddy.
As the 5 minute gun for the re-start sounded most of us were still on the mud. Amazingly we launched quite quickly (although not with any finnesse), Sarah having to jump for the boat before being left behind as the tip of the rudder detached it'self from the mud. We had a late start but a brilliant Kite run all the way back. After 19 minutes and 3 gybes we crossed the line as first boat to finish. We later learnt that on corrected time for both legs we had won. Something to do with not capsizing and few corners me thinks. A great race if a little muddy.
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Nice one!
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I see that you came 2nd at the Grand Slam too. Well done! Nice 2nd and 3rd for Cherubs in one race too by the looks of it! Excellent work :-D
You missed out on some very 'interesting' wind on Southampton water yesterday. Was offshore and gusting 2-20 knots with shifts of nearly 180 degrees which was fun! Kept me on my toes sailing on a broadish reach with Kate on the wire, and then the main backed to the point of gybing completely unexpectedly. Was fine though... managed to escape embarassment :-)
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Congrats on the results at Weston and Thornbury guys, all that practice is paying dividends. Watch out for team Kirk this year!
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We didn't think we had done quite that well at Weston and the race 4 results were a bit odd by many accounts. Much of the time we were close to B14's or International 14's which does show that in those conditions we were sailing closer to their handicap. The T foil does make a big difference in those conditions and allowed us to pace Int 14's down wind.
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Just had an excellent sail today at Thornbury in our long distance race to Sharpness and back which is about 18 miles. Since the forecast looked light to moderate Sarah agreed to crew and our practice from the nationals really made a difference.
We chose our start time of 11:43 to reach the turning point at Sharpness before the 12:30 limit and started with a tight reach to the cardinal called Counts. Then it was kite up all the way to sharpness approx 30 minutes of single wire spinnakering. We reached the turning mark with 2 minutes to spare and set about the upwind slog back to Thornbury. We initially had to tack up the shore to keep out of the worst tide crossing and ducking other boats. We made the mistake of ducking behind a yacht and nearly loosing it in the wind shadow. Soon the tide turned and helped us on our way. Unfortunately this made the water choppy and E-numbers was occasionally trying to jump from one crest to another. As we got closer to the power station the wind increased to 20 knots. (About our experience limmit and above our maternity limmit of 15 knots.) We capsized twice while tacking but were otherwise powering along with jib telltales lifting and the main mostly backed. Finally we were able to tack and round Counts again for the final two sail reach to the finish. This was seriously bouncy and we were still over powered. I was struggling to helm straight while Sarah was struggling to managed the gusts with the main. I eased off some t foil at this stage which helped. tim Unerman kindly binned his 700 in a gust. As we left the main channel the chop reduced making the boat easier to handle and we drove for the line. as we got more comfortable with the conditions we started catching the leading 700. Due to the minimal capsizing and minimal manoeuvers we took the win on corrected time from the 2 RS 700's and the Scorpion. So now we are labled handicap bandits (despite sailing off 930 instead of 941). Maybe we should be sailing off 900?
a bit knackered but pleased with an excellent day's sailing.
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Sounds fantastic but really don't know where you got the energy from! 'Nuff respect to you both (but mainly Sarah).
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Thanks. Sarah really enjoyed the long kite run and did a fantastic job for the full 1 3/4 hours. It is a shame that it picked up and got quite so bouncy towards the end as we were probably quite tired at that point. We were getting close to the limit of the degree of co-ordination between Sarah spilling wind and me helming to feather the jib while remaining stable on the wires in the bouncy chop and remaining upright.
It's good to end Sarah's Cherubing for several months on a high.
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Sounds like a good sail. Also congratulations to you both.
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Your only a handicap bandit because Paul Croote opted to sail scratch against the 700s!
It was a good sail though and at least I beat you and Tim on the water!
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Excellent job! .we find easing the jib a bit really helps when beating into big breezes. it means your steering does not need to be so precise.
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Sounds like a great race well done. Regarding handicap, I opted to sail off 858 because I did not want to cause waves whilst being a non member entering in club races. I have not done enough racing at Thornbury to judge what a fair handicap should be there. I think two light people sailing off 930 in 20kts on choppy water have done well to win!
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Sounds like an excellent sail.
Hayley and I thought about it, overslept and then found we were too tired to move. I'm seriously impressed you found the energy to muster it. Look forward to seeing you both (and my now recovered sail) in the nearish future...
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Have just added a couple of photos of Paul and Tim sailing Anti last weekend to UK-Cherub facebook page http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/UK-Cherub/248933448471702. Nuclear power station, Severn Bridges. Classic Thornbury.
A wider selection of pics from our rib duty is at https://picasaweb.google.com/110044885139843498248
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Well Yesterday was sarah's last sail for a few months. Now Six months large and the dry suit is tight.
We have been sailing the enterprise at Frampton recently but yesterday was a bit of a trial. With the low water level we can safely use about 20 of the 40 acres. The warm weather and lack of any events elsewhere meant we had 42 boats in the first race. The race officer set a bizare figure of eight course with 2 biased crossing beats. As you can imagine. carnage!
We were near the front on handicap in the first race despite being in dirty air a lot of the time and having to sail around some people.
In the second race it appears that the baby is getting the hang of sailing and gave sarah a good kick each time we needed to gybe. It wasn't so bothered about tacking but probably couldn't see the teltales from within.
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Team Trim went to Thornbury yesterday hoping for a cobweb expelling blast in born slippy. The wind had other ideas and had decided to go somewhere else. The Severn was a fog-shrouded mirror and there was not even a token flutter from a single flag. Racing was cancelled. We went home and R painted ceilings and fitted lights while I grouted our newly tiled shower. It means we might have a working shower in the house this week, but I know what I would rather have done ...
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Quick question for the boys (and any girls who have had to deal with this dilemma):
My better half has suggested, very sweetly, that in between all the bathroom fitting etc that we have to do this weekend he takes me shopping, what with it being my birthday next week and all. I greatly appreciate this sentiment and have duly awarded brownie points. But if I tell him that actually I've looked at the Thornbury forecast and I'd rather go for a blast in Born Slippy, will this mean that he never offers to take me shopping again, assuming that the response will always be the same? Or will he offer more often in the hope that the response will be the same? Do I take the shopping option and run? Perhaps I should expressly reserve the right to go shopping on another occasion? :-\
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If I offered a girlfriend a shoppig trip, and she requested a sailing trip instead, she would gain enough gf points to do what the hell she fancied for a very long time after.
This may be the worlds only cake and eat it moment!
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If I offered a girlfriend a shoppig trip, and she requested a sailing trip instead, she would gain enough gf points to do what the hell she fancied for a very long time after.
Shhh. Best keep that between us mate. Don't want you leaving yourself wide open to feminine exploitation. Or then again, maybe you do...
Thanks for the insight.
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If it was my Sarah in a similar scenario I am sure she would go with the "I should expressly reserve the right to go shopping on another occasion" option
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If I offered to take Mrs C. shopping, but she said she wanted to come sailing with me instead, I'd be even more suspicious than she would be if I came home from work with a bunch of flowers for no obvious reason...
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<< Cant believe Roland knows what shopping is ?
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<< Cant believe Roland knows what shopping is ?
Does might be thinking shopping is going to B&Q or similar!
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Well he suggested going to Bath, but i'm fairly sure he wasn't thinking of the plumbers merchants...
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If Kerrie said she would like to go sailing, I would know that alien abductions don't only happen on Cherubs. To her credit she dosen't like shopping either.
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Mr Kiddle, you were quite right. A distinct case of having my cake and eating it (although not yet literally - see below). A most successful weekend included the best kind of shoppping trip - one where the desired item is found and purchased within half an hour and you can go home - and a breeze at Thornbury that built to a 4-5 and sent Born Slippy on a couple of epic airborne kite runs. A sail that should keep me grinning well into the new year if it turns out to be the last of 2011.
I now know what to put in my letter to Santa this year - some new sailing gloves please, I appear to be missing a few layers of skin. Oh, and some decent rope to go in my trapeze adjusters - I keep forgetting to change the dental floss that Andrew's crew put on her at the nationals and my language became positively blue after unexpectedly dropping to the knots for the third time.
As for the cake part, Sunday evening was spent baking in order to keep with that bizarre tradition of taking cake to work for your colleagues on your birthday. Can't help thinking that's the wrong way round, but at least I can guarantee quality cake! But Nigella has clearly not tried sailing before baking - whisk until the mixture is light and airy indeed. Ouch.
So I haven't yet done the cake eating part, but we did pick up a fantastic piece of stilton from favourite cheese shop in Bath, so we had cheese before bedtime instead ;D
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No sailing weekend for me. :(
Antenatal class all Saturday (my biology is improving but I feel vindicated for choosing Physics and chemistry for GCSE). Decorating has expanded to all upstairs doors. I then had an ent class AGM on Sunday. Sarah meanwhile had a very productive shopping trip and got some more baby related things on special offer.
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A whole Saturday of antenatal classes? I expect you to be qualified to deliver Kirklet single handed now!
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Sorry about the "dental floss" not sure why they were changed. The original elastic rope went in your rope bag or somewhere similar.. not sure.. It's about though..
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Still grinning from the weekend.
Born Slippy in force 4+ simply feels like being connected to the wind - then you add the speed humps. As H said the outing started tame and then the wind filled in. Thornbury in those conditions rocks.
The only negatives were the 2x capsizes caused by me forgetting to let of the kicker before gybing and that I look like I've had a session with the grumpy headmaster. Impressive bruise line across the back of my thighs from hiking out the back of the bus and going wave jumping ::)
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some new sailing gloves please, I appear to be missing a few layers of skin.
On serious breeze days I used to put a couple of layers of PVC tape round the second and third phalanges of the first and third fingers under the gloves (and leaving the joints free of tape) and it made a big difference to the skin damage without really affecting movement.
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Babies are fussy about decor, eh?
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Cheers Jim, I have also taped up holey gloves before, but as usual we were in such a rush to make the start that my trusty tape was only used on the bung holes. I didn't notice the lack of skin until we got off the water, which is the sign of a good sail me thinks.
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I think Phil was refering to to layers of eggboxes stuck to the doors with epoxy resin to help with sound proofing.
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Babies are fussy about decor, eh?
They must be Will, 'cos just about every set of about-to-be-new-parents seem to indulge in a massive redecorating exercise before the sprog arrives: the wisdom-of-crowds suggests they can't be wrong:-). Mind you it must only be first children that are fussy, because I've never observed it happening before subsequent arrivals for some reason.
Hayley - I was suggesting putting tape on the fingers under good gloves. Seemed to help me.
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Ah yes! I see it now - it IS only firstborns who are fussy about decor and kitchens etc...
How do they know?
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I'll give under-taping a go. Suppose I should have thought of that from my boxing days. Might wait till some skin has grown back first though
:)
On another note, I have now eaten my cake. Well, my colleagues did. Within about 30 seconds of being informed of its existence.
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I'll give under-taping a go.
Well, my colleagues did. Within about 30 seconds of being informed of its existence.
I always tape my fingers when I go climbing for this same reason. Smearing blood over the rockface isn't very hygienic or pleasant for other wall users! I use this tape which is kind of a cross between micropore tape and sticky bandage, not sure of its official name though!
Standard procedure with the cake. I have found that most people sense the presence of the cake before being told about it!
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Makes sense Jim, I was a first born so haven't quite shaken the habit. The official term is nesting.
As you are probably aware when you start one decorating task the rest of the house looks shabby and expectations of the other half rise meaning that the task grows and grows.
have you ever noticed that all skirting boards and door frames in a house are connected. So where do you stop painting?
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Thanks for the baby/decoration update.....
Anyway, back to Thornbury. We're just starting to organise our racing for next year. Do we have a date for the Thornbury Regatta yet? Would be a crying shame to miss it.
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We do indeed, Thornbury regatta is the 9/10th of June.
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Damn, we will be in Riva del Garda for that week so will miss our annual sail up the elevator. #disappointed
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Riva-Thornbury that's a tough call, having done both I'd say Riva just pips it, now who's disappointed?
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Ah, but 8th June is R's birthday and we were thinking of suggesting a bit of a party on the Friday night at Thornbury. Will provide much cake (running theme) and beer (of course). Can't promise cow-in-mud-and-tractor drama, but you never know...
Really sorry you'll miss it Stu. Tip the balance for anyone?
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Sounds brilliant!
and a 'having your cake and eat it' moment too!
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Roland,
Went down to TSC last night for the AGM and noticed that Born Slippy had mounted the boat next to it (your brothers old cherub I believe). I dont think there is any damage to Slippy but there may be some shroud abrasions on the bottom of the other boat. I pulled Slippy back upright but it was a bit dark to really check it out properly.
Paul
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Drat and thanks. Will try to pop down tomorrow...
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To show that we are not resting on our laurels we took part in thornbury's Lydney litre race.
Race up to Lydney on the west bank of the severn have a drink in the bar and race back again. Race time covers the drinking bit too.
It was a 9 mile beat up to Lydney which could have been accomplished with two tacks had it not been for some windshifts. We also had to stear round sizable logs and even saw a whole tree drifting on the tide. The river narrows at Lydney and the tide accelerates to 5-6 knots so getting in to Lydney in a dying wind was a bit tricky.
The bar was closed!
We then had to wait for the tide to slacken before we headed back. This was mostly a drift until near the end when a 20knot SW'ly filled in for the final leg, a 2 sail reach back to the club.
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Sharpness Race
Another fine long distance race at TSC. The race is to the site of a wreck 9 miles upstream of the club and back. Presumably in memory of the mistake made by the eroneous captain, participants must choose their own start time and ensure they are around the wreck before 10 minutes after high tide.
Marmite, E-Numbers and Evo lined up for what started as a drift and ended with a twin wire bounce home.
The story from Evo was that the helm is now very unfit and that the new T-foil does not fit the old "hold down" sytem. A stop to put the T-foil back in the water and ensure it stayed there meant we missed the window for the return leg. The new Centre board and T-Foil both worked very nicely. Many thanks to Tim U. for stepping in and nursing some fitness back.
E-Numbers waited and started later than everyone else and "got lucky" with the wind filling in and jetting her up to the fleet. Although you could argue that this was great judgement as Phil has won this race before. I think Phil was the eventual winner and Marmite clocked 3rd.
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It is a fine race and great to have the added tactic of choosing your start time to make the best of the tide and wind.
We started late because when we launched we could see wind filling in from down river. We had also estimated that 10am was a good time to start to get to the turning point just before the time limit. So we stuck to our start time the wind did fill in slowly and helped us to chase down those who had started earlier. By the first mark we were in contention and just had to keep in touch with the other faster boats.
Marmite made this quite difficult with their flat kite and disappeared up river on the tight reach. We dropped our kite twice in the puffs and headed up to give ourselves a better angle for the next hoist. We made sure that we were up tide of the turning mark so that if the wind died or the tide turned earlier than expected we had the shortest distance to sail on a good wind angle. We made the turning mark with 2 minutes to go (as last year). We didn't go as close in shore as we should have and missed the fastest turned tide. This let some of the others pull ahead. The wind then filled in with a rain shower and we were soon twinning upwind and going as fast as E-Numbers has possibly ever been. This did allow us to close the gap a bit and set us up for the final two sail reach to the finish. Some of the boats stayed on the wind and did not use the tide for the first half of the leg. having reached the whole leg we were able to close the gap some more finishing about 30 seconds behind Marmite. Overal time of about 2 hours sailing.
It was good to have 3 cherubs on the startline for this club race, a race in my view that would be a great open event.
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Where is the wind? The last two ocassions I have been to Thornbury to get some practice for the inlands there has been no wind. Well a small puff does occasionally appear but a lot of time is spent wobbling around going quite slowly. Then on the Sundays when I sail a different boat there is a lovely breeze.
Sod's law means that the inlands is almost definitely going to be a windy event (at least on the Saturday anyway).
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May be the key is to just sail the Cherub there and do more of it ;-)
I sympathise, there is nothing worse than being faced with perfect conditions and not having the right boat under you.
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Yep you definitely chose the wrong day Phil. On Sunday we had a nice F3. The only problem was the fog which rolled in on the 3rd lap of the first race, and created total whiteout conditions. The race officer couldn't even see boats crossing the other end of the start finish line!!! It certainly made it interesting.
As a result the 2nd race was abandoned :(
Re-run of the Around the Lights race will be on Nov. 4th at 9:00am
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Yippee!
This Sunday was already committed. I was sailing in the civil service team racing team against the ARMY Navy and Airforce for the annual victory trophy.
So for the first time in 30 years we won the event. We only lost one race of the 9 races we sailed and that was due to a penalty on the finish line which resulted in out first boat becoming the 6th boat.
We had 3 very experienced team racing helms (I crewed) Sam and Guy Brearey and Ellen Milner.
I have helmed in the previous 2 ocasions that I have taken part in and the team has been made up of those who were available. This year we had to sellect a team due to the additional interest.
I'm sorry Paul, but it beat sailing at Thornbury on this ocassion.
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Paul C has very sneakily put an AWESOME video of Marmite absolutely rocking it at Thornbury on the website without telling anyone.
Check it out here: http://www.uk-cherub.org/doku.php/videos (http://www.uk-cherub.org/doku.php/videos)
for full HD view it on youtube.
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Spectacular video guys one for the dinghy show ;)
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In HD you can see the smiles on their faces....nice one guys