UK-Cherub Forum
Cherub Chat => Tech Chat => Topic started by: Stuberry on August 21, 2008, 10:08:41 AM
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What is the string of choice for your kite halyards?
I'm thinking, normal control line stuff, dyneema with a 32-plait cover.
Also, how do you work out how long you need it?
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I used 4-5 mm something . . . ;D basically i hate the tiny 2-3mm control lines people use as standard tends to shred hands, think crews are more likely to give it beans on the hoist if there hands aren't getting cut to ribbons.
As for working out the right length i tied various lengths of rope together and put the kite up then added an extra metre or so then measured it and went off to the chandlers. I'm sure theres a much more scientific way of doing it but i was in a hurry. Now i need to do it all again for the new kite :(
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if you know the existing/old one is the right length, why dont you just take it off and measure it :) if its not a complete pig to re thread?!
Or find a piece of rope that you know is too long and thread it and mark where you want the end to be (or a reel of rope...but thats an expensive option if you dont have access to lots of rope)
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I used 5mm control line. You could taper the ends down to the core to save weight and windage but the crew wont thankyou if he has to recover the kite with the 2mm core in his hands. i haven't tappered ours yet.
length: the phrase how long is a piece of string is very apt.
I would thread a peice of cheap string through the complete system with the pole retracted until the two ends at least touch. Add a meter for good measure and go to the chandlers.
We have had problems with a halyard that is a little too long. it kept kinking and jamming in the aft turning block. having taken a little off it we have had no probs at all. To get it just right you may need some trial and error on the water as we have.
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basically i hate the tiny 2-3mm control lines people use as standard tends to shred hands, think crews are more likely to give it beans on the hoist if there hands aren't getting cut to ribbons.
Its an interesting compromise to make... When I reluctantly decided to go one size thinner on Halo (I sail forward hand on my boats) I discovered that the resulting lack of friction made such a difference to the effort required and chewing of hands that I was better off in every regard. Sorry, I can't remember what that size was... You could email Thomas, he might still be using the same halyard...
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Never thought of it that way, could be an interesting test to find out the difference, the only time i seem to get friction in the system on dreams is just as the kite enters the boat and gets pulled through a 90 degee angle change, suppose this is just laziness in not sorting it out.
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Type of rope depends on how much you won't to spend. Generally the more you spend the better you get but that's not always the case. Plus kite halyards are quite long so it can get quite expensive. I would go with 5mm and then taper it as it will hold better in the cleat and be nicer on the hands. You can't go wrong with excel racing, the maffioli evolution race is good and really easy to taper but isn't that cheap. My brother went with the robline control line stuff for his I14 kite halyard because it was the cheapest. Available from www.cheap-rope.co.uk.
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I am using 4mm excel racing at the moment. it's the badgers nadgers, so to speak. I dont really think that tapering it will provide much benefit. the halyards take a complete hammering and the chances of the taper surviving isn't high. If you're sailing in the conditions when it might be quicker, you'll probably be thoroughly bored anyway!
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I've not really investigated this thoroughly but I would have thought that halyard stretch in a kite system is rather a small issue. When you consider pole bending, mast bending, kite stretch and that you want the kite to be quite forgiving to wind speed and angle changes a few mm of halyard stretch is negligable. So go for the cheaper rope like Tim above.
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My kite haylard is a length of 3mm spectra with a cheap polyester cover over the the middle section where hands and cleats will be in contact. Its noticably smoother than the previous excel 4mm halyard but its going to come at the expence of having to keep a closer eye on wear and tear of the rope and blocks in the system so im not yet convinced its worth it.
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4mm holt proline with NO OUTER, and a short bit of something stuffed up the middle where it goes through the cleat.
No outer is important, it always breaks and causes a complete disaster. Also you can't inspect the core (the important bit) for wear.
The thinner the line (within reason) the less the friction. The crew needs sticky gloves then all is fine.
Lucy
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Sticky gloves are a must on halyards with no outer. When I sailed Antidote I had real trouble hoisting and dropping with 'normal' gloves.
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For the kite halyard it is worth using something that will find use elsewhere once it has worn in the typical kite places.
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Pete and Roz had a tapered one which was incredibly thin in the thin part. Coule have been 2mm!
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Pete and Roz
Don't you mean Sonic and Tails :D
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Pete and Roz
Don't you mean Sonic and Tails :D
LOL!
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Ronin came with a 4mm Marlow Excel Racing halyard and I stripped the outer off the part between the kite head to just short of the cleat when hoisted. Thus saving windage and weight high up whilst keeping grippy outer for Roz to hoist. The stripped core does look 2mm ish but provided there is nothing for it to chafe on or any dodgy or mis-aligned blocks for it to jump the sheath of it appears and has proven fine.
We frequently, pre rigging, pull down the halyard tail with a piece of carpet to pull any twists out. As you get towards the end you can see any twists spinning out of the tail.
RS800s (inc us) similarly mostly use part stripped 5mm Excel Racing. However as our 800's kite system is easier than the Cherub we might change that to part stripped 4mm next year if I can sneak it past Roz!
I understand that a kite halyard is less likely to snag/twist if;
- it has no outer / is stripped
- is a smaller diameter
- is newer
- there are less blocks/corners to go around
So Antedote's halyard may be less likely to snag than Ronin's, but the flipside is pulling the smaller slipperier string as fast.....
Will/Lucy- I presume your holt proline is like (a type of) D12? If you are only putting extra string inside it to help it cleat why no put it on the outside; the load bearing inner will never chafe first and you could periodically change the short outer section allowing your halyard to potentially last a very long time?
(Note; different string type / manufacturers diameters vary, I think the 4mm holt proline is considerably thinner (like 3mm?) than the Marlow 4mm Excel Racing (b4 stripping).