UK-Cherub Forum
Cherub Chat => Tech Chat => Topic started by: Neil C. on May 14, 2013, 04:08:37 PM
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After sitting in the garage going nowhere for the past 18 months, I've finally started to make progress on the rebuild of Cherub 2658 - originally named "Cellulite" because of her Nomex construction. The plan last year was to do a quick fix-up on Groovejet 2631 before moving on to 2658. But of course that took all year and then it was winter and resin won't set at sub-zero temperatures. I'm fed up patching up the old woodie, so 2658 has come on a bit in the last week, inspired in part by Tim's Comfortably Numb project. Just needs mini side-decks with extensions out to the 1.8m beam, then it's paint, fittings and off we go. That's the theory anyway.
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Excellent news.
Look forward to seeing her at the nationals? (25th-28th August 2013 - Babacoombe)
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I knew it was worth documenting my 'build' so I am pleased that it has inspired you to carry on with yours Neil :-) What with Fubar and Strawberry undergoing extreme makeovers there is a good level of boat refurburation going on behinds closed doors!
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Get any more done this weekend Neil?
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Glassed both sides of a foam sheet tonight, for cutting out bulkheads once it's set. I haven't got into the whole vacuum bagging thing yet, so used the old-fashioned method of adding peel ply and a layer of polythene to each side, then sticking a sheet of 10mm plywood over the whole lot and weighing it down onto the workbench with my toolbox and a few other random heavy items.
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Neil the revised gunwales on Born slippy are a box section. They are 25mm face width and leave very angry marks on my rear when it is very windy - gives a new meaning to "caning along"
An idea below. However, need to flag that I offer this assuming this will act as a muse not the solution and as always I'd invite others to chip in with comments.
Box section, but make the top face wider tha BS. Achieve this by:
1) Add your mini bulkheads*.
2) Add an upright between the bulkheads. These would run fore-aft 3? inches in from the outside edge (Tom K. can you confirm what you used on Beans, even unfinished it looks comfy).
3) Add a top bit of foam. Possibly use foam only laminated only one side when fitting the upright and the top (see 5).
4) Round the edges on the top piece.
5) Glass over the outside of the lot, extra layer on the outer corner to allow for rolling her on her side.
*not entirely sure what the mini bulkheads are doing apart from stiffening the sheet to stand on, wonder if you could get away with only 1 or two of them. However as they only weigh grams then not really worth altering the plan.
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Hi Roland, many thanks for the input / suggestions, this is most welcome. One of the problems is that being built to the '91 Rules, the current max beam at the gunwales is 1.58m. I would like to bring this out to 1.8m without adding too much structure / weight. I've discounted using racks as I would end up with a minute gap between the inside of the rack tube and the gunwale. This is the current structure:
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This is what I'm planning to add. My concern is whether I can make the overhanging rim of deck stiff enough for two crew trapezing off it.
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I would suggest, from an ergonomic point of view, you will find your kickstep/trapezing position a pain in the back of the thighs/knees when your hiking.
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I would suggest, from an ergonomic point of view, you will find your kickstep/trapezing position a pain in the back of the thighs/knees when your hiking.
Stu - how did you find my BS?
Neil's is lower than the inner bar. It may also be less of a problem for Neil as he is nearer my height than Hayley's.
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Forgot you had the 12 rigs to play with as well.
I think the suggestion modifies to this.
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while finding BS a massive bundle of laughs, she's not very ergonomic. I just remember sitting on a corner!
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How's it coming along Neil? I take it that you have been too busy boat building to update your 'blog' ?! ;)
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Mini bulkheads fitted. Need to make up deck panels next.
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Slow progress, but beginning to look like a boat again. The end is getting a little closer.
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Keep on going Neil. I am assured that it will all be worth it in the end!
The only thing keeping me sane is knowing that in just over a weeks time, I have got 2 weeks booked off work for the primary activity of sailing the bloody thing! ;D
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Slow progress continues.
I'm really just posting this so that the fear of public embarrassment if I don't finish it off will be enough to give me the final push to complete the job. Really not a huge amount to do. Feel free to throw some abuse and ridicule this way to give me a kick up the rear.
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Can confirm it really is worth it.
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Cant see any difference Neil, what the hell have you been doing ? ;)
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Cant see any difference Neil, what the hell have you been doing ? ;)
Excellent. That's more like it! :)
Actually (and I realise this is probably going to kill off any resale value the flamin' thing might still have had), when I got back from my summer holidays I decided I didn't like the side-decks, and that Cheese-style racks were the way to go. So the jigsaw came out one afternoon and the side of the boat came off. After messing about with tube angles and stuff for a while I decided that didn't look right either, so I've spent the last 2 or 3 weeks rebuilding the decks and laminating them back on!!! If you look closely in the photo in my last post you can see the joins. Stupid or what.
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Good to see you are still going for it. I have the same problem with an idea and a jigsaw as I get carried away as well. Its usually great fun at the beginning but putting it all back together is a lot of time and energy. Having said that I have usually been pleased with the final results. Sweet Dreamzzz is now a much better boat, but is still showing the scars from my last idea and jigsaw frenzy, soon to be covered but I have the advantage of it still being sailable.
Keep it going Neil, as the boat will be soooo much better in the end. :)
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I have given Gill my jigsaw and she's locked it away where I can't find it....just in case
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Angle grinders are worse for this.
Think twice, cut once!
and just because someone else did something it doesn't mean it's right.
If you had the jigs it would have been easier to build a new hull but that's not a restoration project and in my mind it's sort of cheating.
I'm sure it will look right when you've finished it.
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Much shaping and sanding today. Looking a lot tidier. Top layers of glass / carbon need to go on the foam soonish (underside already glassed with 2 layers of 200g). Is it feasible to get a reasonable finish with carbon cloth on a horizontal deck panel with peel-ply, but without vacc-ing?
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Today:
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Is it feasible to get a reasonable finish with carbon cloth on a horizontal deck panel with peel-ply, but without vacc-ing?
Sure, if you consolidate the layup in another way. It doesn't matter what presses it down so long as something does. Halo's tank sides were consolidated with the aid of many years issues of Yachts and Yachting and Boards magazines... The thing about vacuum bagging is that its convenient and you get a lot of pressure without much weight. If you think about the amount of physical weight needed to get the same effective pressure over a large area its fairly intimidating.
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The atmospheric pressure at sea level is about 14.5 lb per square inch or 1kg per cm2. You won't get a full atmosphere with most setups, but even half that is significant.
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The atmospheric pressure at sea level is about 14.5 lb per square inch or 1kg per cm2. You won't get a full atmosphere with most setups, but even half that is significant.
Finally got some slightly warmer weather and a free Saturday evening. I have just laminated up the main panel for the port side-deck. Covered it with peel-ply, sheet of plastic, 9mm plywood boards and weighed down with several buckets of water. I was standing back looking at it and had the hypothetical idea that I could remove the buckets and instead cover the panel with the kids paddling pool and fill it up. Water seems pretty dense, and this would give a steady even pressure across the whole surface. But then I re-read Phil's post above. To achieve a pressure of 1kg per square centimetre, I would need a column of water 1000cm tall over each square centimetre of surface, I.e. the water would have to be 10 metres deep!!! My house is about 9 metres tall to the ridge. That's a lot of pressure!
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laminate on floor...a big flat pad, settee on top, telly in corner, and a whole series of 'game of thones' to watch. that should do it. Oh hang on... fridge full of beer (sat beside you on the settee). porta-poty (on other side). sorted! Hey all you need is a little application! :D
Keep it going the suns out and it might get warm soon. Rutland???
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Been in need of some inspiration lately.
Remember the old sci-fi film "2001 Space Odyssey" ?? Well a monolith has appeared mysteriously in my garage. Although for some reason mine is pink instead of black.
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The ship is basically complete, but thanks to the fact that I couldn't make a plan and stick to it, is currently only 1.58m maximum beam. Still can't decide whether to:
1. leave her as-is and keep her well under weight
2. Styrofoam (or the pink Wickes equivalent) core with glass/carbon cloth laminated deck extensions
3. Racks, with a very small gap to the original gunwale.
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The extra beam will do v little for you. Getting sailing on the other hand....
W
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I think it depends on your planned crew, and rig size. For example with a 97 rules rig think how much time you are going to spend full hiking and flat wire, compared to a bit underpowered.
The width will help in one scenario, the weight will hurt in both.
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Getting there, (very) slowly. Think I'll re-build the daggerboard tunnel for the jib sheet and kite halyard leads. Was hoping to leave it off to gain a few inches of daggerboard length, but probably easier just to stick it back together. The tunnel was cut off by the previous owner, but he helpfully gave me all the bits he had chopped off the boat in a very large bin liner. The it's a final fairing and get some primer on her.
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Not long now Neil. We can't wait to join a start line with you on it again the near future.
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Neil, how is this coming along?
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Neil, how is this coming along?
So, this project continues to move forward at glacial speed. When I bought Cellulite / Lost in early 2011 I thought it would take about 5 weeks to do, but now it's looking more like 5 years. That annoying thing called real life keeps getting in the way. Currently I have primer and first topcoat on the hull. 2nd coat required, then final fill and fair to topsides, paint, non-slip, re-fit the gantry, fit out, mast up and go sailing. So near but yet so far.....
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Bloody real life! It's such a time thief!
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Neil - if you can get a ticket to the one of the days of the upcoming Draycote blast we can:
a) Make sure there is a boat to sail - you deserve some sailing time.
b) If she is on the back of the car - offer some hands over a beer in the evening. I'd really enjoy it and I'm sure the rest will too.