UK-Cherub Forum
Cherub Chat => Tech Chat => Topic started by: Tim Noyce on November 15, 2011, 01:55:39 PM
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Well it is the beginning of another new Cherub era for me having passed the Badgers Nadgers on to a new home on Friday. I am now onto my 4th Cherub... which just so happens to be exactly the same hull design as my first one...
On Saturday Kate and I picked up Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb, from Oxford. Ben hasn't been getting much use out of it and so kindly let us buy it off him to complete the next stage of Kates sail training programme as we felt the jump from 2303 to 2694 was a bit of a steep learning curve to deal with (especially with me at the helm!)
On Sunday we rocked up at Netley and rigged up, (many thanks for the help from Stu Tinner and Stu 'Hoppy' Hopson as there were a few bits which we had to guess / bodge until we have time for a long lasting rigging solution). The wind was similar to the conditions we experienced at the Bonfire Blast so it was offshore, shifty and more than a little bit gusty but this meant we got to put the boat through its paces in a variety of conditions. The boat performed well and the main negative from my point of view was that my crews kept leaving me at every slight opportunity (do I really smell that bad?!) Kate decided to unclip herself in a windward dunking incident leaving me to sail off... and Hoppy ejected himself overboard using the excuse of a broken trapeze wire!
Big smiles all round after a good 3 hours on the water and I am certain that we've got ourselves a good ship, I'd forgotten the magic of a single wire 97 rules boat with no t-foil in a big breeze... counting down the days 'till I get to go out again!
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That's so good to hear. Bring on the '97s!
Perhaps you should talk to your crews a bit more nicely though :)
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97 rules is the way to go, two of us at Largs. They are a lot of fun, have a look at the 97 rules video (http://youtu.be/7kIsh22sQZ0) from a the summer
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Just joined the club.
Picked up Mardge yesterday. will hopefully be at the sticky weekend.
She needs alot of work before going sailing. she is missing alot of fittings, Boom and Sails. but the hull seems solid.
can;t wait to get started on her.
(http://)
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She looks very similar in deck layout to 2643 that I used to have, but with an additional centre console.
I think that hopefully there will be a fair few active '97 boats on the circuit (or at least the nationals) next season so would be good to all keep in touch and help each other out where we can. Nick, I will start a new thread to help you try and locate the bits you need to get up on the water as quickly and easily as we can!
I spent yesterday evening removing the temple vang from Numb and trying to design a new kicker system which used the 2 double blocks which are spliced into the continuous sheet system so that I didn't have to untie it and redo it! Bens temple vang system was a very neat system but sadly there wasn't quite enough space to get it to work with the full range of movement so it had to go!
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Are we using big kites?
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Depends if you wanna be 97 or 05 I guess! To be in 97 club you need to measure as a 97 rules boat. The clue is in the name ;-)
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I did the kicker mod last night to give the full range of movement which we were severely lacking at the weekend. I managed to get away without removing the continuous system and still getting in a decent number of purchases (and more importantly, not having to buy any more blocks!) I think it has turned out as 12:1 but I am sure there is someone out there who can tell me otherwise.
I also replaced the 9 missing balls out of the self tacker car... I felt a bit sore when leaving the chandlery as the Harken spec Torlon* balls cost nearly a tenner for a pack of 20! Ouch! Oh well... it seems to have fixed the sticky car so shall not complain.
Next job on the list is to remove and replace the gunwhale grip and Kate is planning a new kite sock after the success of the Badgers.
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Strawberry is progressing in the hands of Davro.
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Strawberry is progressing in the hands of Davro.
Good to see Davro's sitting room being put to good use. It will be grand to have the Berry back on the water Stu. It's not been the same without her.
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Tim you have a 16:1 kicker. 2 X 2 X 4
It sounds like the 97 club is growing which is brilliant.
Nick,
When Madge was being offered to a class member I offered a proctor ally boom that I have in my garage and a ally rudder stock. Both came with Slippery but were not needed following the mods we did. Please let me know what boom length you need and the type of rudder fittings you have and distance between them.
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Thanks Phil, that should be enough to be getting on with anyway. I will splice the dyneema once I have decided that the lengths are acceptable so it will look a bit less 'ropey' (geddit?!)
Not sure that Nick knows what length boom he needs just yet as he doesn't have a mainsail yet! If anyone has one which is suitable please add it to the swap shop page... and Nick, make a list of all the items which you still need.
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Depends if you wanna be 97 or 05 I guess! To be in 97 club you need to measure as a 97 rules boat. The clue is in the name ;-)
Well that is me out then, my up wind area is a bit over, and I will be using a bigger kite next season.
There looks like some good modding going on.
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Have you got any pics of your new mainsail Phil? I think to be honest the main aim is to get more old boats out sailing and to have fun whilst doing it. Not sure we will be waving the rule book about as ling as they still measure as Cherubs. To win the 97 trophy you've got to tick all the boxes though I would say.
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With the older rule set we could go with a slightly more traditional way of measuring the sails.
Standing back and saying... "Yer that looks about right, you're in."
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But we will stick to using a tape measure
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I have a square top 91/97 main for sale. Brand new, never been used. I think it is about 8m^2 which is a little under the 97 rules main I had on Flat Stanley.
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If we are gonna stick to the rules a bit more does that mean that Slippery sol be illegal unless I stick some toe straps in and take off the second wire even tho my crew probably weighs less than Eddie will next season
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I say PM me with how much you would be looking to pay. I dont think it will be as much as I would want for it but I am prepared to loose out a bit if it means another Cherub out sailing well and looking the part!
Also asking that question.
I found those pic's on the site when updating the Madge page.
How much are you looking for the main . would be something to start with before coming up rig program once the boats sailing.
Phil. ANy parts would be use full right now. This weekend i will have some time to pull out everything i have and work out whats going on.. Most of the deck hardware is also missing so it't going to be a long project getting her back on the water.
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Have you got any pics of your new mainsail Phil? I think to be honest the main aim is to get more old boats out sailing and to have fun whilst doing it. Not sure we will be waving the rule book about as ling as they still measure as Cherubs. To win the 97 trophy you've got to tick all the boxes though I would say.
We are all about having fun up here, there is a bit of fixing to be done on the kipper to get it back on the water and convince Dave's crew that winter sailing is good.
I have not put a tape mesure against the big main, but it is quite a lot bigger than the older one.
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that looks sweet.
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I have not put a tape mesure against the big main, but it is quite a lot bigger than the older one.
Which sailmaker made your new main Phil? I can't make out the emblem behind the gnav. ??Hyde
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I have not put a tape mesure against the big main, but it is quite a lot bigger than the older one.
Which sailmaker made your new main Phil? I can't make out the emblem behind the gnav. ??Hyde
It was Dynamic Sails, I said that I was not too excited about area, I just gave him my weight and told him I was sailing the boat single wire. He came up with a size somewhere between 05 and the storm main that he has made for one of the 05 boats.
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I bet that it's classed as a 'storm' when the wind reaches 20 knots ;-)
The sail does look nice, what size kite are you planning on using next season? I have got a 97 kite with Numb and I think that for round the cans racing at the club that will probably be the most useful size. We may stand a sporting chance of being able to use it on the reaches if they are broad enough.
What handicap have you been sailing off at the club? For a 97 bistro I guess 1000 is the official number on the website but I'm not sure that they will go for that at Netley. Numb certainly looks quicker than a 1000PY number!
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We sial Born Slippy off 975, never win (we are hopeless after all), but always have the biggest grins :-)
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No-one who sails a Cherub is hopeless, they are tricky little blighters to sail.
The reason the grins are so big is when it goes right, it goes really right.
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I bet that it's classed as a 'storm' when the wind reaches 20 knots ;-)
The sail does look nice, what size kite are you planning on using next season? I have got a 97 kite with Numb and I think that for round the cans racing at the club that will probably be the most useful size. We may stand a sporting chance of being able to use it on the reaches if they are broad enough.
What handicap have you been sailing off at the club? For a 97 bistro I guess 1000 is the official number on the website but I'm not sure that they will go for that at Netley. Numb certainly looks quicker than a 1000PY number!
I am probably going to go for around 18 or 19 sqm to give a bit more power in the light stuff. to go bigger i would need to extend the pole and I do not think that I would get much benifit.
We are sailing off 965 at the club this year. We have won a few races, mostly when it is windy. In the light stuff we are typically quite far behind on handicap.
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We did not let a broken bowsprit spoil the fun and rigged the 97 size rig and headed off to the sailing academy at Weymouth. The smaller kite seemed to set quite nicely off the remaining section of pole. Nice 13knt breeze and the November sunshine gave me the chance to practice trapeze helming taking some non sailing mates out for joy rides. The boat certainly turned some heads too which was nice. All in all a great weekend which showed us how much fun a 97 rules boat can be!
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Had another session out in Numb today and it seems to be that regardless of what the weather forecast says it seems to blow 18-25 knots at Netley... that's 3 sailing sessions in a row now! I am sore and my body feels highly abused. Numbs Fyfes are a real treat in breeze and the Bistro is so forgiving you can drive the boat ridiculously hard up and down wind and get away with murder! What a boat! :-D
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Fully epic weekend 97ing at Netley this weekend with Tinner and his new crew Becky sailing Pasta Frenzy. Davro Hung around for the day to get a nice Cherub fix between teaching people how to ride motorbikes!
It was a tale of two both ends of the spectrum as regards to wind, Saturday we were blessed with blazing sunshine and 20-25 knots so had some epic blasting up and down Southampton water. Saturday night involved rum, pizza and plenty of rest for tired bodies!
This morning was equally sunny but a bit (lot) less windy! We decided to get involved with some club racing round a one lap elongated P course in 4-8 knots of wind. We were pretty pleased to beat the 2 RS600's over the water and come in not far behind an FD over the water and took a pretty respectable 11th out of 27 boats in far from favourable conditions!
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What a weekend! Becky and I picked up Pasta Frenzy on Saturday morning (thanks Dave) and headed down to Netley where we were greeted by a sign saying:
Wind F4-5
Sunny 20degC
Visibility Good
Sea Slight
Does it get any better than that?
Davro took Becky out for a couple of acclimatisation laps to show her the ropes. Then Dave came back to the beach and after a quick rest, I swapped in. The upwind took a bit of getting used to. Re-learning to trim the main as well as steering is going to take some time on the water. But the downwind send really was one of the those special moments. Pasta absolutely sings!
Sunday dawned with a lighter breeze and we had a go at the afternoon race. We tried going offshore to find more breeze but got stung by the stronger tide. Two inland sailors with some learning to do! We had major problems getting the battens to pop accross in the race, usually meaning we spent 30seconds going backards on each tack. So with the boat handling and tactical errors we watched Numb sail off over the horizon. I think we finished 17th, so not totally terrible.
After racing we were determined to learn to roll tack the thing and get the battens through first time. Mission complete! But now we need to master the same on the gybes.
Becky has well and truely caught the bug! The next time we sail will be the Civil Service Dinghy Champs on 30th June - 1st July weekend. And we're on for the nationals. Looking forward to it!
97 Rulez OK!!!
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so...becky is?
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Nice one Stu...
For the main popping thing can I recommend screw type batten tensioners?...much, much better than bits of rope. I swapped the ones on the Red Eye onto the Fyfe main and they are magic. You want tension? Wack 'em on!...a few turns off and things pop no problem in lighter weather.
Just trying to source some more via Suggitt Sails.
...and remember - this is a spade:
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I recomend in light winds pumping the Cunningham as you flick the main
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As does TK Phil...respect various folk's experience and all that but it's a simple solution and putting previous tension back is as simple as counting the turns.
Aren't we all just tolerating an over-hard leech in light weather because we don't have easy control of batten tension?...or does it no affect light weather performance?
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The problem is solved by learning how to tack better.
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Fair comment...but what should the leech (especially at the top) do in light weather as opposed to moderate or heavier winds?
Hard tension on the battens tends to make Loco's look quite hooked at the top....prone to stall in light stuff?
Loco's is a square top.
Genuine questions...I'm not sure
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dump some kicker, more caps, more cunningham
above are three entirely seperate ways of changing the leech profile without fiddling around with the batten tension too much once you have got it set initially
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Thanks John
What I have found is that kicker has less effect on the square head than I'd like, I'm trying to avoid fitting adjustable caps...Cunningham...yes.
I'm hoping there are just 2 settings for the battens - light and 'heavy' and the rest is Cunningham/kicker...
Adjustable caps might well be the way to go for comfort tho'...just trying to keep it simple because I'm easily confused.
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On Pasta the leach hooks really easily with too much mainsheet tension. So on sunday I was sailing with the main eased a bit in the lulls to keep the leach straight and keep the flow attached. Then pinning a bit more main in the gusts. In those conditions I was just taking the slack out the kicker. And the cunno was loose apart from in the tacks.
Battens don't really have much effect on leach tension because the are perpendicular to the leach.
Does Loco have a square head main?
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Yes, Loco's a square head...I think that makes it more of an issue than for some
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nigel, if you cant un-hook the main with the kicker completely loose (i.e. controlling leech with main sheet) then id be fairly surprised, remember that pretty much all mains hook when there is nowind in them at all, even laser sails do. wither way that problem can be got around by more caps, but that flattens the main, etc....
another solution is just set you battens to the perfect leech profile with no wind (see picture) and you should find that you will be able to keep the profile as the wind increases by using the controls instead of faffing with battens...
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/560668_3901860912631_2020615531_n.jpg)
P.S. I am "friends" with sam on facebook so you should be able to see all the pictures of tuning the new boats mainsail through his account
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Ta mate,
Yes, I've done a similar thing and set up the leech with no wind in. It seems to be working well and I'm only assuming I will need extra tension in stronger winds...haven't had the chance to test it yet. The day you sailed Loco was the first day sailing since the new set up which is a little less tension than was previously in but it's easily adjustable.
Will look at your photos via Sam's a/c
Loco's sail viewed from the back (as per your photo) is flatter in the foot and fuller in the head than 'Phobia's...and now pops much easier (you had no problem, I was watching from the shore/rib) and should be controllable in most conditions...we'll see.
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Right dudes, have all you 97'ers got your entries in for the nationals yet? Today is the day when the price goes up so please get your forms in asap!
I can almost guarantee that there will be excellent wind, sun and sandy beaches for anyone who makes the trip down to Babbacombe, and there you will find 4 of the finest days sailing in the history of the class. Please don't miss it, you owe it to yourselves!
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Hear hear ;D