UK-Cherub Forum
Cherub Chat => Tech Chat => Topic started by: PaulJ on November 07, 2011, 02:24:28 PM
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Just thought I would update you on what we are doing with Ronin.
As the water at Weirwood Reservoir is seriously low making sailing extremely hazardous the winter refit has started early, it was orginally planned for Christams holidays and New Year, the upside is that this will allows us to do some of the winter events such as the Grafham Grand Prix, Bloody Mary etc. Anyone going to join us ?
So far, we have completed the following :-
1. Stripped all the fittings off
2. Removed all the progrip
3. Sanded the foredeck and crew area. Found out that non-slip paint is really hard to get off. Took about 5 hours of orbital sanding to finally get it all off, still got to do the kick bars to do though
4. Sanded and faired the outside of the hull. Made up a 6mm and 4mm torture boards from ply about 600mm long with a handle each end. Sand paper secured with removal carpet tape. Worked really well
5. Filled all the dents and hollows with epoxy and micro balloon filler
6. Made a carbon cone for the inboard end of the pole to prevent damge to mast posts, see below
Still to do before she goes to Monkey Marine in Weymouth for a respray on the 20th November
1. Sand down hull and deck filler
2. Repair the two mast posts under the foredeck, where the pole has hit constantly hit them
3. Repair the kick bars, I believe Pete Barton also had trouble with these
4. Build a new raised and curved spinnaker chute mouth, this should help with kite drops
5. Build new higher carbon jib cleat tower
6. Put a carbon plate under the mast step as this is showing signs of very slight movement
7. New hatch in forward tank accessible through spinnaker chute
So far we have filled a 1 litre ice cream tub with paint dust which is beginning to weigh quite a bit, I think this only accounts for 1/3 of the dust, the rest is all over the garage and now making its way into the house and outside !! Hopefully we have removed more paint than will be put back on
I'll post some pictures when I get her out of the garage in a couple of weeks before the respray
She is going to be sprayed with Awlgrip (colour to be decided soon), anyone have any experience of this.
Hopefully Ronin will look as good as new by Christmas when the water should be back to normal sailing levels
Cheers
Paul and Peter
Ronin - 2698
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Whoa! Busy!
Put up a picture!
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Adding the hoover fitting to the random really helps!
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Seriously busy boys ! I can see next years "best restoration" award being difficult to judge, Badgers looking nicely fitted out too ..
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I don't think I can upload photos at the moment for some reason
Can anyone help
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Sounds like really good work towards improving the sailability and reliability of the boat. Picture permissions come in after your have made 5 posts i think. This was put in place to overcome spammers from uploading non boat related images.
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Yes the aim is to make it much more sailable for Peter, he has really struggled at times to get the kite down. I have never understood why when people build chutes in foredecks they aways make the aft port corner 90 degrees with a small radius, seen it alot in 14's as well. Hopefully the mod will sort the problem out once and for all.
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Yes the aim is to make it much more sailable for Peter, he has really struggled at times to get the kite down. I have never understood why when people build chutes in foredecks they aways make the aft port corner 90 degrees with a small radius, seen it alot in 14's as well. Hopefully the mod will sort the problem out once and for all.
This is something that I have also wondered, a large radius corner, and large radius port side to the chute make a bid difference.
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All the sanding now complete on the outside of the hull.
Return to the decks tomorrow and start the new chute.
Going to use a kitchen bin as a former for the back end of the chute, seems to be the perfect diameter, then 15mm pipe insulation to form a rounded edge to the whole thing.
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Photos of the outside of the hull, plus the 2 torture boards
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Going to use a kitchen bin as a former for the back end of the chute, seems to be the perfect diameter, then 15mm pipe insulation to form a rounded edge to the whole thing.
A beautiful cherubic solution. I like your style.
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Looking good!
Dangerous Beans is due for a lick of Awlgrip over the winter, I'm keen to hear how it goes.
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What I've heard about awlgrip is that the paint forms a very hard outer shell, which makes it very tough. But if you do need to make a repair it's impossible to blend it in to make it invisible.
edit: a quick google of "awlgrip problems" comes up with some worry results: Link (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=awlgrip+problems)
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Foredeck and deck fully sanded and faired now, nearly ready for the respray. Kick bars and chute ground back ready for repairs and new bits
Not the best look to be seen by the neighbours late at night !!
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That looks like a very thorough going over with the abrasive! Looking good.
Have you decided on a colour for the respray or is it going to be white again?
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Re dust - it may be of interest?
After sneezing black for a couple of days last year we've upgraded to "spray masks". They cost about £13 for a car spray shop, have "active carbon filters" and make you sound like Vader (neither of the last two are any use for cherub dust, but help identify the mask type).
After moving on from the paper mask the dust quota in my nose has dropped to zero and I can sand for an extra few hours :-)
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That looks like a very thorough going over with the abrasive! Looking good.
Have you decided on a colour for the respray or is it going to be white again?
It's definately not going to be white, more than likely a grey just need to decide on how light/dark/blue to go, will decide when I see the colour card on Saturday. Non slip will be put on afterwards in clear coat after lots of masking nice curved corners, strips etc.
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Sounds good... I have painted my last 2 boats a nice shade of Dolphin Grey. Dark enough not to be white but not so dark it gets very warm in the sun!
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Ronin now in sunny Weymouth ready for some new paint, Medium Grey Awlgrip has been chosen, with matt clear coat over the non slip, should look good
By the end of the week the epoxy primer should be on, so painted white for a week whilst it cures, then yet more sanding before two top coats
Garage swept and cleaned, over 1. 5kg of sanding dust went into the bin
Should be really for collection on the 10th Dec, fittings back on the following week ready for a test sail before the Grafam Grand Prix.
Work now begins above deck, going to make a new spare boom from the broken pieces of a 40. 7 spinnaker pole that I have kept for 4 years, going to fit a gnav to this boom and see whether it helps with some of boat handling etc. The other advantage will be the dagger board can be raised much further for those windy days, and launching and recovery
The aluminium mast track is going to be replaced by a carbon one to stiffen the mast fore and aft ready for a new suit of sails from P&B in the new year. We are going for a straighter rig with flatter sails, these will be based on the design used by Roger Gilbert at the I14 Worlds. This does mean we will have to be able to change rake quickly and easily (more importantly safely), so a pin double fast pin system will to added to the shrouds, already have a purchase on the forestay, which works fine. Adjustable lowers will probably need to be added as well, but we haven't made that final decision yet.
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Hi Paul,
I have just brought The Subtle Knife and joined the father son Cherub club to sail with Alex (10).
We had our first couple of sails this weekend at Hayling. Conditions could not have been better.
I want to make an mods that are possible to make it easier for Alex, and me, however we will not have many chances to sail it before winter kicks in properly, and I do not want to make too many modifications before we really know what will work.
Your mods to the spinnaker chute mouth seem very sensible. I am sure that we will do the same, our boat has the same issue.
The jib sheets on our boat cleat / uncleat by pulling forwards / backwards rather than up / down.
This does not work so well I was going to change it to a conventional up down system.
Why are you making the jib cleat tower higher? I would have kept the cleat on the floor so that there was less to trip over.
I was also tempted to move the cleat forward so that it is just behind the centreboard as we need to be further forward in the boat due to the excessive weight at the back.
I was also tempted to separate the pole launch from the kite halyard, and put it on a separate pump system.
This would allow me to help Alex pull it out of the sock and there will be a few feet less for him to hoist.
On the drops I think that it may be lees likely to fall in the water if he can blow the pole and pull the slack from down-haul so that the kite is collapsed and above the chute when the halyard in blown.
My concern is that they may not be enough room in the cockpit for us both to be active at the same time.
I was also going to try and adapt one of these
hxxp: www. ebay. co. uk/itm/Wireless-Fish-Finder-Sonar-Aerial-River-Lake-Sea-/300626275822?pt=UK_SportingGoods_FishingAcces_RL&hash=item45feb8edee
to make the daggerboard case last longer in the harbour. It sounds as though it would also be useful at Weir Wood.
Any thoughts from more experienced cherub sailors would be most welcome.
Clive
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Well done Clive and welcome. Subtle is an excellent buy.
Although over 10 years old Hayley is sub 50kg. I wondered about re-fitting a tack/help line, but now I frequently do not make it in from the wire during the drops. It does get much easier with practice, but making it easier makes the mistakes less catastrophic.
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Hi Clive,
Pleased to hear that you have bought Subtle, it is a great boat. I hear what you are saying about the having the pole launch as a seperate purchase but I do wonder if you will be able to get it to work effectively as there won't be that much space in the cockpit when you are going for the hoist. Once you have born away you will need to be at the back of the boat which will further reduce how much space you have to play with.
From some experience sailing the Badgers Nadger, generally when we hoisted, Alex (the helm) would either stay on the rack or on the wire to balance the boat and give you some options. (I elbowed Alex in the face pretty badly once early on when he was in the cockpit for the hoist and since then he decided it best to stay out on the wire!)
One thing that was noticeable in the Badger, was that when it was new and everything was running smoothly then the hoists/drops were a real delight. We spent a fair bit of time making sure that all of the blocks were aligned to reduce friction, the sock was sprayed up with lube around the mouth, and the bungee take ups on the mast were all free and running smoothly. Also, keeping the spinnaker coated with waterproofing makes it less likely to bunch up into a horrible mess inside the sock. Rounding off the corners of the chute may be benefical though, and maybe a new sock with added depth should reduce the friction inside the sock. On a windy day I would often pull as much of the kite into the sock as possible before blowing the halyard but I guess the technique comes with practise (and being twice the size of your son!
Not sure what you mean by your jib cleat, we just had a standard cleat with a riser block on my boat which was bolted a few inches behind the daggerboard case. The position was fine but I never felt that it really worked as well as it should have done. Anyway, just some rambled thoughts on the matter... I am sure that other people will chip in with their thoughts!
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Hi Clive
Good to see you join the fleet, should be fun with a few father and son teams sailing together next year
Jib Cleat - Peter has trouble cleating the jib from the wire, we have already bent up the cleat a bit, but it's still not ideal, we are probably going to add another inch to the tower which should solve the problem.
Spinnaker hoists and drops - we have and are working really hard to make this as easy as possible. Hopefully the chute mouth is the biggest improvement, but we have already made the sock bigger and upgraded all the blocks to 40mm harken blocks, both helped. Loads of prolube also does the trick
It's the drops that are the real problem, but we have worked hard on the technique which has improved things. I really make sure that I run off really deep so the kite stays a bit more forward, Peter then really tries to keep the momentum going as the kite either comes round the forestay or enters the chute (normally jumps off the deck at this point which is amusing to see), a small pause seems to make it really hard work, I also have to resist the tempation to head up early as that just blows the kite backwards again. We also tie a big bowline in the downhaul which means that the two patches come down individually rather than one big lump.
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Unfortunately time run out at home so Monkey Marine (Sam Pascoe) is now doing some of the bigger jobs
Latest progress photos of the new Ronin spinnaker chute, moulded around a barrel of resin
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We moved to 2 patches to make the drops easier. Yes you do need to space the patches, on ours the lowest patch has 2ft of dyneema and a ring to space them out in the sock. Typing this makes me realise this must make the beginning of the next hoist more difficult as the cloth needs to cross in the sock - I see a plastic bobble being added to that in the near future.
The easiest way to drop is to bring the kite down around the jib. Conventionally the kite halyard goes up from the sock outside the Port side of the rig, making the easiest drop on Port. This can significantly help a crew whose arms are falling off.
I find it helps if I round up more as the patch comes round the forestay, but this only works if I'm on a wire and can keep it flat.
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To help with the drops I have fitted a auto trip to the downhaul, it uncleats when the downhaul gets tight, so you can just keep on pulling the downhaul. Pausing to let go allows the kite to fall in the water
Another thing that made life eisier was moving the bottom patch further towards the clew so that when the downhaul is pulled tight, before the halyard lets go, the patch and some of the cloth is pulled around the forestay.
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how does that work phil
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What a lot of activity! Welcome PaulJ and Clive.
1) Jib cleat. On Atum we replaced the plate between the bulls eye and the the cleat with one which was much longer and placed it on the floor. This was for ergonomics. If the plate is too short, even if you bend it upwards, the rope needs to move a long way (up and down) to uncleat and cleat. This may be ok for the crew but for the helm soon becomes impossible (the helm is further away). This was ok, but (as helm) I found myself pulling the jib sheet under my leg to ensure it cleated. On Antidote we fitted a much bigger cleat on a 30mm turret which was still not perfect. A huge turret is a mechanical problem as well as a trip hazard.
2) Kite drops. separating the patches and lubing everything really helps. We reckon that getting the downhaul reasonably tight (and getting the patch or ring to which the patch is attached) round the forestay as you blow the halyard helps. Also a rule of thumb is once the patches are in, the rest will follow. So that is one big pull with one hand (while you blow the halyard), one with the other hand, and then one more with the left hand again. Then it is both hands to get the whole thing in. (quick! quick! quick! slow! slow! slow! (and possibly another half slow).
3) Rake alterations: I am v interested to see how you get on with this.
4) Kite drops: We had a string on the bottom patch with a ring spliced on the end. 60cm on the bottom patch, 30cm on the middle patch and nothing on the top patch. The downhaul line goes through the rings. This mean the top patch goes in first.
5) Helms for hoists etc: I tried to stay on the wire for hoists, but never made it work. I stay hooked on, but am hovering over the bar bearing down deep to facilitate a really quick hoist. If impossible due to boats down there or whatever, we stay up, but taking special care the kite sheets are running double freely. I still think the 'optimal' hoist is one with the boat pointing v low, but I can see which way the wind is blowing and am ready to be wrong!
6) More drops: a shock chord desprangler which runs from a bit above the head of the jib and keeps the halyard against the mast helps with drops also, but you have to switch from quick+easy to slow+hard as you pull it down.
Hope some of this is of some help. Oh yes - a really deep bear away at blow time helps it stay above the sock for those two seconds before the patches go in.
Will
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Sarah is in the sub 50kg crew club too but we have rigged our boat similar to most modern cherubs.
Hoists - we changed to a larger chute after the first season and have quite a voluminous sock. Coating the kite also makes a big difference with used sails. Block alignment and lubrication is also important. As Tim has said a seperate pole launch line may be difficult to work in practice unless the crew pulls the pole out first and then hoists the kite. Keeping some speed on during the hoists does improve the balance of the boat and gives the crew a more stable platform. A deep bear away for the final pull or to is a must though. Friction is usually the biggest driver rather than length of halyard. The pole should not have much friction on it but I would be really interesting to see how you get on. next best thing to speed up the hoists is probably some hard labour for the crew to build up their muscles :)
Drops: our patches are spaced as Will recomends but i have wondered if it is possible to rig it so that the lower patch goes in first. The technique is to pull the slack of the down haul in which should get the lower patch round the forestay and over the sock. When the halyard is blown the crews other hand should be taking the biggest armfull of downhaul in to get the patches into the mouth of the chute. This is the point where all those low friction blocks work against you as they make the kite fall down quicker.
Jib cleat: ours is on the centreline at the forward end of the case on a turret about 10cm high. This is also angled forwards. this means that both the helm and crew can cleat and un cleat the jib but only if the crew is not to far forward. in the lighter conditions where the helm will be siring and the crew in the middle it is much easier for the crew to adjust the jib from the cockpit.
New ideas are good and worth trying. We have found you have to try these things and develop a technique around them before you can evaluate weather there is a benifit. Smaller crews may benifit from different systems so we will be watching with interest.
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how does that work phil
For the Auto trip I have two turning blocks at the back of the boat not too far apart with a floating block in between (this can also be used for the elastic takeup) the trip line is tied to the floating block which goes forward and then up under the foredeck so that it pulls from directly above the cleat.
At the front end of the trip line is a stainless steel ring, and the haliard passes through this just forward of the cleat. When the retreaval line pulls tight it pulls the trip line and that lifts the haliard out of the cleat.
It needs something to keep the SS ring close to the cleat, but once the length of the trip line is set it works supprisingly well.
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Thanks for all the comments.
Lots to ponder. The auto release on the halyard sounds very good.
What are you coating the kites with?
Clearly a newer kite would be easier, but we do not want to trash a new one whilst learning.
We had a brief test sail in Atum at the bonfire blast. One of the things that we noted was how much better the jib worked compared with the Knife.
I like the idea of mounting the cleat on a wedge or an angled turret so that the angle drops if led further back.
The forecast for this weekend does not look good for a second outing, and unfortunately this may be our last opportunity before the spring - plenty of time to get it all working.
Clive
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Clive - I've been thinking about an echo sounder for a while. Transponder built into the tip of a spare board is what I was thinking of, with a wired display (or homebrew one with a howler), but that looks v cheap and easy to fit to the transom.
Also - jib turrets: Yes I agree that one which slopes backward to maximise the proximity of the 'control cone' of the jib sheet with the racks is what is required.
Something I saw years and years ago (1992) at Halfway YC on some of the Contenders there was a special kind of 'ratchet' which gripped the rope tight like a circular clam cleat (a bit like the top of a self tailer winch). When you pull in and release it would lock and then you pull in again and release and it would spin backwards to ease. It worked this way alternately, like a bathroom pull chord light switch. One of these would be useable from anywhere and ergonomically acceptable too. No-one I have spoken to remembers these except me. I think they could really help the jib cleat issue.
Atum's jib system was the product of tinkering on Norwegian Blue and Aqua Marina. It is 2:1 only so loads of rope isn't required, and the 2:1 is between the track and the clew so a straighter track can be used without it centreing. We used a 49er track so we could stand on it without issue. To improve Subtle's (which I think still has 4:1 jib sheet) you could start by changing it to a 2:1 with the purchase on the clew. This also means the sheet does not block out in either direction.
Kites are coated with Holmenkol usually. Is expensive but really works. We bought a new kite for the 2007 nationals and treated the old one with Holmenkol. After that we had trouble telling them apart.
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Latest progress on Ronin, not a sharp corner in sight, chute has 2 layers of kevlar in the high wear areas plus the carbon. Raised bit is 70mm above the deck, photos make it look much bigger though, still on course for the epoxy primer by the end of the week
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Hi Will,
I am old enough to remember the cleating ratchets you describe. I believe that the issue with them was that you could not easily tell if they were on or off. They may well work on the jib.
We have a tapered mainsheet. The taper has a similar action in the ratchet block. It will be going very soon
Interesting your comments on the jib purchase. We seemed to have a lot of sheet.
For the spinnaker coating do you mean this:
hxxp: www. ldcsailing. com/holmenkol-textile-wash. ir?cName=clothing-clothing-by-type-clothing-protectionrepair&src=froogle
How do you apply it, I assume that you do not put the kite in the wash.
or this:
hxxp: www. amazon. co. uk/Holmenkol-Natural-Snowboard-Spray-200ml/dp/B004AZ95C0
Clive
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I think that the 4:1 lasted a whole one sail before I was so annoyed by the masses of sheet that it just had to go!
With the homenkol you put it in a bucket and simply dunk the kite in there till its had a good coating. You should be able to do more than one kite per hit.
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Ease of kite was one of the main concerns Jill had about a cherub, her experience standing in for my absent 4000 crew when we were first married (Jill and I, not my 4000 crew and me - that would have been most unpleasant) was not good. Funnily enough we have the same one rope system as the 4000 but with bigger turning blocks and everyting lined up so there is minimal friction on the rope. We also have a very large entry into the spinny chute with quite a high metal loop, also the chute iteslf is very baggy so it doesn't constrict the kite. We have a three patch kite. We have a plastic ring on a line on the bottom patch and a knot and bobble between the 2nd and top patch to keep them all apart. I believe it all works well (and I would get to know sharpish if it didn't) still doesn't stop me 'encouraging' Jill on drops and hoists tho ::)
As the the jib sheet, ours is like Will described. 2:1 on a 49er track through a turning block at the starboard end, through a ratchet block on the deck under the wing bar and up to an angled clam cleat on a jib turret which is about 10cm high. Both Jill or I can adjust the jib from the rack either side. We do have to ease the jib each tack and pull it back on afterwards partly due to the radius of the track and partly to keep the sails vertical.
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Hi Clive,
I am so glad you remember those blocks. They were a bit big. Just to work out how it would work I made a CAD model of one a while ago. It's an interesting problem to make a thing a lot like a clock escapement. The more I think about it,, the keener I am on this idea again. The special block would not need to be on the cockpit floor. It could be anywhere in the system, even the jib clew (if small). It will have a minimum resolution which might interfere with subtle jib adjustments.
We put the holmenkol on with a sponge with the spi laid out on the ground.
Best wishes,
Will
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Hi Will,
It is possible that the blocks were made / branded by Elvstrom and imported by Rondar.
Given that the jib sheet has a straight run a linear toggle cleat system could be introduced rather than a rotary system. This could be made by adapting a standard cleat, with inspiration from a Bic Ballpoint, or by scaling the mechanism from a roller / Venetian blind cleat.
The mechanism in an inertial reel seat belt may also be usable.
I would worry that if you pull the jib in as hard as you can you will not then be able to pull it a bit harder to release it.
I am going to try a Spinlock PRX cleat on a suitable swivel.
Holmenkol appear to make a huge range of products.
hxxp: www. holmenkol. com/en. html
Do you know which you used. ?
Clive
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Holmenkol seal and glide is what you want. Costs about £35 but will do 1.5 05 rules kites. The pack includes 2 bottles.
We have the same 49er track that Will suggested and the 2:1 between the clew and the track. This is done without the shet going forward before coming back to the track leaving the foredeck clear but does mean that sheet needs to run through the block on the clew and the 2 blocks on the track car during each tack. This is similar to how a yacht may rig the main sheet through the traveller car if using a maisheet winch on either side of the cockpit. The 49er track radius is not quite perfect and like Andy and Jill we have to ease a little sheet out before each tack. The Car on the 49er track uses wheels rather than ball bearings which means the leach tension may increase friction during a tack. A Burr free track with a ball bearing car may present less friction. If you run the sheet forward from the car to the fore deck the position on the foredeck needs to quite far forward and spot on the centreline to maintain the same tension on each side of the track.
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Thanks Phil,
Unfortunately I cannot find a distributor with stock.
Additionally there are recent posts on kite surfing forums suggesting that it has been discontinued.
I will keep searching.
Clive.
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I think Pete B sells Holmenkol products.
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I think that any waterproofing product is likely to give roughly the same effect. Tent / clothing waterproofing should give good results.
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I have used fabsil tent waterproofing on a few kites and it is quite effective. I am curently working my way through a huge bottle of nikwax tent waterproofer and it is not as good as the fabsil but is less smelly.
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Things are moving along well in Weymouth, still on target for epoxy primer at the end of the week
Cracks in the kickbars have been laminated
Mast step plate has been made, ready to be fitted today
Kingposts under the foredeck have been repaired and reinforced with the addition of small guides for the spinnaker pole
Chute partly faired, hopefully be finished today
No photos today, but hopefully I will get some tomorrow
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Ronin has been in the paint booth over the weekend, first coat of epoxy primer applied, more sanding to follow then first topcoat sometime next week
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Looks tidy. Look forward to seeing the topcoat and fittings back on it.
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Top coat sprayed today in Awlgrip medium grey, very pleased with the result.
Rudder stock painted to match
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Looking good guys, I've spoken to Pete he's impressed.
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Thanks Phil,
Unfortunately I cannot find a distributor with stock.
Additionally there are recent posts on kite surfing forums suggesting that it has been discontinued.
I will keep searching.
Clive.
Hi Clive,
Sorry for the delay, I have just woken up to this request.
I was/am involved in some small scale promotion/distrubution of Holmenkol. I have checked the garage (I dont come across so many spinaker users nowadays!) and have some Seal n' Glide and Sport Polish available at a discount;
Seal n' Glide - £25 (I think the area suggests 1.5 x 21m2 spins. You might stretch it to 2 spinnakers, I did)
Sport Polish - £20
+postage
The Seal n' Glide worked really well on my older Cherub & RS800 spinakers to make them more water repellant and slippery.
Let me know if you would like some - peter(at)skifftastic.co.uk
Great to see Team Jenkins and Team Everest getting so fully involved in the class. It could be an interesting few years...
Cheers,
Peter
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Ronin has made it back home, really pleased with the results, just need to put the fittings back on, then off to P&B to be measured up for the new sails.
Hope to make the Chew Valley blast for test sail. Fingers crossed
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Great news Paul. Looking good. Really hope you can make the blast. It should be the ideal opportunity to try out any new systems/settings. Easy launch and recovery, so (as we've found) if you've rigged something the wrong way round everything else/your T-foil is stuck on so positive you can't go in a straight line etc you can just pop back to shore, fix it and head out again in no time. :)
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Excellent job. I look forward to seeing it on the water.
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All the fittings and control lines are now back on. Now with P&B for the new sails which should be ready in a couple of weeks, hopefully just in time for the blast at Chew Valley
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Looks really neat.
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Lovely job Paul
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Finally everything has come together, Ronin's winter refit is now complete :)
Relaunched at the Chew Valley Blast with the new P&B sails and straighter mast, still a few minor issues to sort but nothing that stops us sailing now the weather has improved
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didnt look bad, very 14 like