UK-Cherub Forum
Cherub Chat => Tech Chat => Topic started by: gilly900 on July 31, 2011, 09:15:49 PM
-
Hi, first post on the forum, but have been looking around for some time. I welcome any musings on the following. Rescued this old boat from bass sc over 10 years ago with the intention of doing her up. Work then family commitments precluded this, until now. . . she came with a set of sails no. 2501 by dolphin sails. No idea if they were her originals! She was in the condition shown hence i am having real trouble identifying her design / vintage. Note interesting gantry. I would hugely appreciate any advice. Would love to get her sailing in one form or another. Tentatively considering an update with false floor etc to 97 rules. Any ideas on feasability? the link is to a flickr page containg the pics of boat in her current and as rescued state! www. flickr. com/photos/65918178@N08/ Thanks in advance. For some reason this link will not save properly, the photos are in the flickr account gilly900 and are the only photos in that account! (search gilly900 in people)
-
Hi Gilly,
I am not the expert on restoration, but there are a few about and I am sure they'll be on here sooner or later. Its hard to tell what design it is from the photo's - a good transom shot is often a giveaway, certainly could be 2501, if it is I'd date it around 1975; I had 2521 in 1976/7 so somewhere around there. The bow does look a nit Jennifer Julian to me, but I am not sure there were any wooden ones ... sure others can add to this ...
-
Welcome and if we can help with the restoration please post questions.
Where are you based?
-
]m based in Falmouth Cornwall although the boat is currently in Newcastle Upon Tyne with my Father. I intend to tow her down at the end of the summer to crack on with the resto over winter. Still not fully decided if it is a worthwhile venture as i really aspire to owning a fast asymetric. On that note any resto would bring her up to date rather than being true to her vintage. Again im really after any advice from experienced guys!
-
I'm pretty sure there were wood Jenny Jules, and 2501 seems to be a sensible sail number for the shape and construction.
-
Hi Gilly. That's an interesting one. I agree with the other guys on here that 2501 is probably about the right sail number looking at the shape and construction. The unusual thing is that clearly somebody has at some point done an early asymmetric conversion and added a gantry. No way either of those would have been original. Funny I don't recollect seeing it at any open meetings in the 90's or later, but I suppose somebody could have just done the conversion for blasting at their local club. It is certainly possible to upgrade an older woodie like that into a fast, fun asymmetric speed machine, but the hull shape is likely to prevent it being very competitive against more modern Cherubs. The other difficulty is that putting on '05 or even '97 Rules sized sails puts a lot more strain through the hull than it was really designed for. I live in Newcastle, so would be happy to go and have a look at it if you like and see if there's any other information or advice I could offer you.
-
]m based in Falmouth Cornwall although the boat is currently in Newcastle Upon Tyne with my Father.
If you are passing Bristol then feel free to PM me and come for a sail.
-
Thanks for all the advice thus far! Neil C, i would appreciate it if you would come have a look at the boat at some point over the next few weeks!
-
If I am correct in understanding your post you want to restore to the modern rules. Restoring/ updating to modern rules would put a lot more load on the hull than originally intended. You may need to beaf up the structure or add structure to take these loads.
Now varnished side decks and carbon racks would look a little interesting!
-
Hi Gilly,
If you could make it to the nationals you could compare and contrast lots of different boats from woodies up to the latest E6, get some tips and go for a sail too. Would be great to see you there.
-
I'm away on my summer hols at the moment, but I'll PM you my mobile number when I get back in a couple of weeks. We can arrange a time for me to come and have a look no problem.
-
wont be able to make nationals as am on holidays would have been a good call though! Will await PM with phone no. from you Neil C! in the mean time any more musings on her identity, or ideas on direction for refurb gratefully recieved. Dont want to do anything too radical until ive ascertained she is not some sort of missing link!! If she is not, (as im sure she isnt!) im thinking wings; false floor and twin wire, mitigating against increased torsional load with liberal use of fibre / epoxy! Has anyone done this to their old boat? if so any advice / pitfalls?
-
If she is not, (as im sure she isnt!) im thinking wings; false floor and twin wire, mitigating against increased torsional load with liberal use of fibre / epoxy! Has anyone done this to their old boat? if so any advice / pitfalls?
My advice would be don't try to overmodify it.
Wings and Snouts would be difficult/impossible to do properly on a wooden boat, and would add a lot of weight, probably without making the boat go faster. A smallish 97rules size Asymetric and 1990's upwind or slightly bigger together with a false floor would be my suggestion.
Alternativly getting a symetric kite to work well over shiny varnish would be a Kudos inspiring move.
-
The other thing to be a bit wary of is that, depending on what she was built with, she might be getting to the age when glue failure is a possibility. Cascamite and aerolite seem to lose more than half their strength after about thirty years or so. For bits where half the original strength is good enough which is most ply onto stringers that's not a problem, but you need to be wary of things like beam joins.
-
I really would not advise going further than 1990 rules (no snout, with asymm). Its an easy and cheap conversion, and you will have a real weapon of a vessel.
If you want a 97 rules boat, there are a coupl eof great ones on the market. Same 2005 rules.
Good luck though!
-
mitigating against increased torsional load with liberal use of fibre / epoxy! Has anyone done this to their old boat? if so any advice / pitfalls?
The trick is inteligent use of fibres aligned in the right directions atached to strong bits of boat, using enough resin and consolidating the lot well. You may be surprised how little fibre is needed to make a strong connection if done properly.
When we bought Slippery we had to remove copious amounts of resin from the bow which was not doing anything.
Good luck.
When you've had time to collect and look at the boat post any questions you may have and we will do our best to advise.
-
ok, up in Newcastle and pressganged my father into helping drag the boat out of the gloom to have a good look and get some better photos. Please see attached photos and any more thoughts on design or ideas on direction for refurb!
-
photos. .
-
more photos.
-
and more! Nice daggerboard but delaminating at the bottom!
-
Quality project! I'd stick to 90's rules, maybe with bigger kite though. A false floor will add a lot of weight but will stop the transom sinking so much in the light stuff.
-
Not a Jennifer Julian with that transom I reckon. Nor, I think, one of the more common designs... The stern is Spencer7ish, but the sail no and construction seems too late for that. Interesting to see the rocker line. I wonder what the records say about the sail number.
-
OK
From the records and this is Will's boat archive sail no 2501 was built in 1976 by Comander to a Spencer design and owned by M. Commander. The archive does not identify which Spencer design it is but I would guess it is a spencer 7 or a Spencer design which was tweaked by the builder. The previous Spencer design was built in 1971 sail no. 1721.
Also from the archive Comander is not recorded to have built any previous cherubs. I would therefore guess that this was a home build to an existing set of plans.
2501 was called 'Twinkle'.
2501 was also the first sail no. of a new batch for the UK class. The previous UK sail no. in the sequence was 2450 Easter Beagle to the Duke/Hows design. 2450 is the last for which I have a copy of the original measurement certificates. Other designs common in 1976 were Forman 4's and Jennifer Julians, Deeley, a Patterson an Caisley and a few others. Quite a lot of variety in design at that point.
-
I *vaguely* recall Mike Commander... I have a memory that a few unbuilt Spencer 7 kits were knocking around about that time, so maybe Mike picked one of those up and gave it a contemporary interior layout. Got to wonder why though, although perhaps he tweaked the shape a bit.
-
That makes sense,
I was wondering why a standalone Spencer turns up several years after the previous one had been built. As design had moved on it wouldn't have been as competitive as the current boats.
The benefit for Gilly is that he has the newest example of the design.
-
Realise that i'm very late inthis thread but i was 2501's second owner roughly 1979 to 1990.
She was called Sweaty Badger inmy day, first built as Spencer 7 called Twinkle.
Much loved and well raced in her day, still have a few photos if she's still in one piece i would love to hear.
Just found her replacement an IC k145 is still around !
Best regards
Steve.
-
Good to hear from you Steve, we are allways interested in populating the website with pictures, and information about of old boats
-
Last we heard 2501 was in a garage in Newcastle upon Tyne, although she could have been moved to Falmouth. You could try PM-ing gilly900 via this forum to ask if he still has possession of her. I believe he was planning a big restoration project, but I'm not sure if it ever got started. If you don't get any joy with a PM let me know as I may have his other contact details somewhere.
-
Quick update: I'm pretty sure 2501 is still in Newcastle. More or less complete - minus her foredeck but still in a condition where she could be rescued and returned to action.