UK-Cherub Forum
Cherub Chat => Calendar Events => Topic started by: simon_jones on January 03, 2011, 03:29:06 PM
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What :- Whitstable Open
Where :- Whitstable Yacht Club
When :- 14/15 May 2011
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The first warning on the Saturday will not be before 11.55 am. On Sunday 09.55 am, the aim is four races a day.
The briefing is at 10.30 am on Saturday. The entry fee is £30.00 per boat and a curry will be available on saturday evening for around £7.00 per person. Accomodation is available at the club for those who wish to stay local to the beer.
Alternatively you would be welcome to stay at mine, which is around 40 mins from the club.
Could anyone attending please post here to give the club an idea of numbers.The NOR SI's etc. are on the club website at www.wyc.org.uk
We will be there with Eleanor.
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Ronin will be there.
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We're in ...
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EJ's in.
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Unfortunately we won't. We will be sailing a leadmine on Saturday at Hamble and it's my mothers birthday Sunday. Jill will miss the oysters......
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I may be in?
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Has anyone got a double stacker trailer going down?
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So the final line up is.
Eleanor
Ronin
EJ
Riot Van
Atum (?Sunday)
Sgt. Murphy?
Cheese?
Any others coming for a sail this weekend.
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Double stacker available to borrow from Bristol.
Team Trim are taking some holiday either side of Whistable. Sadly the route we are taking to get there and back means we can't park with the double stacker holding 2 boats on the Friday/Sunday night or bring any passengers. So borrow trailer yes, us tow it - currently no.
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Sgt Murphy is looking for a test co-pilot for the Sunday at Whistable.
Any takers?
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Thanks for the offers - slot filled
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cheese is now a no, a level exams!
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Ha, exams...I remember them...ohh wait a minuet...no I dont :D
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Epic sailing. Not that windy though pokey in places. Triangular sea state enough to get airborne a few times in the Pasta Frenzy with Dave Roe.
Swimcount=1 when we were just engaging the warp drive after hoisting. We were in front of Eleanor and near to Riot Van I think htey were ahead) when we fell in. As I surfaced I saw Eleanor streaking by looking amazing.
Saturday of the Whistable Open:
A WNW F4 was blowing straight on to the beach when we arrived, with white horses as far as the eye could see, it seemed windier.
The course was a square affair, with the Musto Skiffs doing most of their laps on a 'side sausage', leaving Cherub and B14s on the ordinary sausage. The course was some way out and towards the Swale and the ebb was just beginning at the first start, suggesting a left-favoured beat to get out of the tide. There was enough breeze that differences in underbody configuration and rig did not count for too much and of course the simple blasting pleasures were available to all.
[[sorry cut short - I had to walk the baby. Was excellent sailing though]]
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The wind on Saturday was averaging over 20mph and the water was short chop, this made for tricky conditions resulting in everyone having a
swim (some more than others). As Will said the breeze meant that Pasta was right up there with her smaller rig, Eleanor also sported her reduced main, possibly our descision of the weekend. Today was a little lighter, however we all seemed to be still a little broken from Saturday.
1st Graham and Eddie
2nd Dave and Will/Tom
3rd Dean and myself
I will post a full set of results when I get them from the club, Thanks to all who came I hope you all enjoyed it as much as I did.
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Given that this is our aniversary year and this was the first event of the travllers series it would be fitting to put a report onto Y&Y tokeep the awareness of the class up.
Breeze in the west was quite pokey both days with gusts nearing 30 knots. Great sailing in a strong fleet but we would have enjoyed sailing the cherub at Whitstable just as much.
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The results are here: http://wyc.org.uk/results/Cherub_Open_2011.htm
Does anyone know what Crootey and I did to get disqualified in race 5?
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I think it was because we did not go round the bottom mark correctly at the finish. :(
but that race was Paul then Ronin. the resto f the fleet did not finish.
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An epic weekend.
Great to see everyone - glad to see our results did not make the listing (Team Trim's worse open meeting result of all time).
Many thanks to Stu for getting Sgt. Murphy's kite up with Bruce. Was great to see the Union Jack hoisted and the mast staying in 1 piece.
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I think it was because we did not go round the bottom mark correctly at the finish. :(
You didn't have to, the course on the SI's was: Start, B, C, D, C, Finish
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Stu it was an issue with the marks I believe, I will speak to the R/O to find out exactly what the issue was.
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We were rounding the finish line mark not the leeward mark. I also rounded the leeward mark (which wasn't) before finishing upwind. Note to self for nationals, pay more attention to the sailing instuctions!
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I was rounding the big black round w/ward mark and the identical leeward mark. Then finished downwind between the orange mark and the committee boat. Not sure where I went wrong.
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i think our bottom mark was the orange with the black top. the Solid black was the finish/start line.
the first three rounds we went round the start/finish mark (but our string would ave gone round the orange with black top) but when we limped to the finish without the kite that last lap we were to weather of the orange with black top so did go round the bottom mark for the last time.
s**t happens. pity as both Paul and our selves sailed that whole race only to be dsq'd so no cherub's finished. :(
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That doesn't seem to match the sailing instructions which say:
10.1 Course 1 (A&B) will be marked with large inflatable buoys.
Course 2 (C&D) will be marked with large inflatable buoys.
The start/finish line will be marked by the committee boat and an orange buoy.
Also, the course diagram shows the start/finish buoy as inbetween the committee boat and the leeward mark.
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The R/O has confirmed that both cherubs in race 5 went around the pin end bouy not the leeward mark hence the DSQ.
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So was the leeward the orange one or the black one?
And the pin end the orange or the black?
We went around the black. So if that was the pin end of the line, why does it say in the SI's that the pin end of the line will be an orange mark?
Does anyone know the process for appealing against a disqualification?
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The leeward mark was orange with a black top, the start/finish mark was black. As we started every race with this mark it may be difficult to say that you were not sure which mark was the Start/finish mark.
The Si's state that all protests must be lodged in writing within one hour of the finish of the last boat in the last race of each day.
That being said if the DSQ's were taken away and Paul was given 1st and you 2nd in race 5 the outcome of the series would remain unchanged.
Paul would be 4th with 18 points, you would be 5th with 20 points.
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The leeward mark was orange with a black top, the start/finish mark was black. As we started every race with this mark it may be difficult to say that you were not sure which mark was the Start/finish mark.
I didn't start every race considering the black mark was the pin end of the buoy, I considered the orange mark was the pin end, as described in the sailing instructions.
The Si's state that all protests must be lodged in writing within one hour of the finish of the last boat in the last race of each day.
I presume a protest was made against Paul and I, but I was not present for the protest hearing. The SI's say that protests will be heard at 1900. I presume there was a hearing in my absence. I will write to the club and ask for a copy of the protest decision.
That being said if the DSQ's were taken away and Paul was given 1st and you 2nd in race 5 the outcome of the series would remain unchanged.
Paul would be 4th with 18 points, you would be 5th with 20 points.
I also rounded the leeward mark (which wasn't) before finishing upwind. Note to self for nationals, pay more attention to the sailing instuctions!
Therefore Paul's DSQ should remain. I however firmly believe that we sailed the course described in the sailing instructions and should therefore be scored 1st in race five, promoting our final position to 4th and one less point in the Traveller's Trophy.
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Does anyone know the process for appealing against a disqualification?
The RC are not allowed to disqualify you without a hearing (unless there's something very weird in the SIs) so if there was no protest for not sailing the course (RRS 28 IIRC) then you should not have been disqualified.
A request for redress (=protest form) to the club would be the appropriate thing, but I expect you will be considered out of time now. Might be worth a try though. See this thread on the YY forum http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7848&PN=5&title=laser-start and note posts by "gordon" on the last page
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Does anyone know the process for appealing against a disqualification?
yes, you should go the pub, drink 3 pints of Guinness and when taking your first sip from Number 4, you should start to reconsider your life priorities :P
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Here goes on the event report then.
Saturday 14th May saw the cherub fleet at Whitstable yacht Club, the wind was a gusty 20mph+ north westerly which coupled to an out going tide made for tricky launching conditions.
Race 1 Pasta Frenzy was proving that in these conditions age is no handicap in a cherub and the combination of Dave Roe/Will Lee proved difficult to beat. Eleanor managed a 2nd.
Race 2 saw some very close racing with a win or swim attitude from Eleanor saw her go from 1st to 3rd only to claw back another 2nd behind Pasta, followed by Riot Van then Ronin
Race 3 the breeze dropped (a little) for this one and Pasta struggled for pace with her 97 rules rig. Stu and Nick took the honours in Ronin
with Eleanor again 2nd, Pasta 3rd and Riot Van 4th
Race 4 the wind was back up for this one and the race officer thought it would be great to add an extra lap ( he's obviously not sailed a Cherub
for 4 hours in those conditions) Eleanor who was once again in 2nd place on the last lap tipped it in at the windward mark, her crew lost a boot which led to yet more swimming. Riot Van was in front for most of the race and finished 1st, Ronin was 2nd, Pasta 3rd, Eleanor 4th
Sunday saw Atum arrive to play and the wind dropped slightly to around 15 knots
Race 5 saw only 2 cherubs sailing as Graham went shopping after leaving their wetsuits in the tumble dryer, and Eleanor broke her goosneck on launching
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Cont....
Race 6 saw Ronin retire due to gear failure and Atum take the win with Riot Van 2nd, Eleanor 3rd and Pasta with replacement crew Tom Bruton
4th
Race 7 this was another hotley contended race in which Riot Van and Atum swapped places, Pasta was 3rd and Eleanor who again joined swim club 4th
Race 8 Eleanor retired due to crew failure in this one, Riot Van secured a series win with a win in race 8 followed by Atum then Pasta.
The racing was very close with all boats except Eleanor taking a win and the results were.
1st Riot Van
2nd Pasta Frenzy
3rd Eleanor
4th Atum bomb
5th Ronin
6th EJ
7th Srgt Murphey
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I notice theres some photo's here - http://www.championmarinephotography.co.uk/galleries/B14%20-%20Skiff%20Open%20WYC%202011/index.htm
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Technically we scored a single DNF in race 4 day 1. Sgt Murphy attended the event, but was having too much fun to attend the course. That makes 6th and 7th.
Our race report (not for Y&Y):
After an uncommunicated bear-away 65 seconds before start 1 EJ went from happy and having much fun - to wet and having no goose neck. After a protracted swim we sailed back to shore under jib and raided the local chandlery for a replacement (think A-Team in a big hut of unsuitable boat equipment, but with a credit card in addition to a hammer, vice, plexus and cordless drill).
Tired and happy we headed off the shore again in time for race 4. We arrived and headed straight at the line, binned it in and then started 2 mins 30 seconds after the gun. For the race we sailed like tired muppets. After a storming downwind leg we had a protracted swim after helm mis-read a speed hump during the gybe. Highlight of the race was being lapped by Ellenor, we dropped behind her and found lovely groove splashing uphill and being close enough to need to take avoiding action when they stufffed the tack. Race ended when I went through the jib! We tried to get home with the kite, but the flailing jib made it impossible to set so and likewise 2 sailing was impossible. Another long swim, main off and a long sail in under the tatters of the foresail followed.
Day 2. Decided to miss the first race to get a clear bit of beach to set up the spare jib. Ellenor escaped past the groins and as they left the wind shifted - No way out. Broke T on a failed exit attempt.
Shame as we thought our open meetings of swimming were behind us. However, was a fantastic weekend. Really enjoyed the sailing we did do and was great to see everyone.
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just to point out that in rounding the start pin in each round we would have passed the out side of the actual mark thus would have completed the course correctly( string rule thing)
anyway moving on.
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Just to keep everyone in the loop. I have written to the rear-commodore (sailing) at WYC requesting the results be amended under the following rules and RYA case history:
63.1 Requirement for a Hearing
A boat or competitor shall not be penalized without a protest hearing,
except as provided in rules 30.2, 30.3, 67, 69, A5 and P2. A decision
on redress shall not be made without a hearing. The protest committee
shall hear all protests and requests for redress that have been
delivered to the race office unless it allows a protest or request to be
withdrawn.
A5 SCORES DETERMINED BY THE RACE COMMITTEE
A boat that did not start, comply with rule 30.2 or 30.3, or finish, or
that takes a penalty under rule 44.3(a) or retires after finishing, shall
be scored accordingly by the race committee without a hearing. Only
the protest committee may take other scoring actions that worsen a
boat’s score.
RYA 1989/7
When a race committee believes that a boat has broken
a sailing instruction, it cannot disqualify her without a
hearing or deem her to have retired. The race or protest
committee must first lodge a protest against her, within
the time limit for doing so, and a hearing must then be
called.
RYA 1989/8
A race committee is not allowed to disqualify a boat
without a hearing, except under the Black Flag rule. A
race committee is not allowed to score a boat DNF for
failing to sail the course if she complies with the
definitions Start and Finish. A protest is needed.
RYA 2006/8
Unless otherwise specified in the sailing instructions, a
race committee has no power to disqualify a boat
without a hearing, or score her DNF if she finishes, if it
believes she has not sailed the course. Instead it must
protest her within the protest time limit.
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Whitstable YC have sent me a full apology and re-instated both me and Paul in Race 5 of the open meeting. They have assured me they will not make the same mistake again.
Atum Bom scored 1st in race 5 and Ronin scored 2nd, so this makes no difference to the overall results.
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The results on the WYC website have been ammended to show the above.