Author Topic: Boat tuning  (Read 15282 times)

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Offline Torchy

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Boat tuning
« on: April 18, 2012, 10:57:26 AM »
Would anybody like to tell us what they are doing to tune their boat? If a one-design can see significant speed increase...

I've been surprised how much adjusting the tension on the battens has made upwind. There's a internet dearth of articles on the subject but some sailmakers recommend adjusting tension according to the wind strength.

I'm looking at jib sheeting angle...

'T-foils slow you down in many conditions' (discuss) NB there was a time when National 12 rudders got so small you almost had to steer with the sails...apparently hull designers would like to get rid of rudders because of the drag they cause.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 12:57:24 PM by MK »
Previously 2685 'Loco Perro' and 2345 'Tachyon'

Offline JimC

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2012, 11:11:27 AM »
I've found jib sheet settings to be critically important for upwind speed. In spite of the obvious advantages I never used a self tacking jib on Halo because I couldn't figure out a way to get the level of on the water adjustment and control I wanted without going string crazy. Halo had a track for sideways adjustment and a barber hauler for vertical. In practice I mostly just tweaked lateral position and jib sheet tension, the latter frequently.

Many ICs, esp with self tackerrs,  do the vertical adjustment by moving the jib up and down the forestay, but that's more complication than I want on my boat. My IC has almost exactly the same adjustment as Halo had, but seems to want a lot more vertical adjustment. Mind you its more difficult to fine tune jib sheet tension on the singlehander!

Offline john_hamilton

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 12:49:18 PM »
this is something id like to srat to refine also jim, i have put in hardpoints for a similar system to what you describe on the international canoes, but think i need to finish getting the rig right first, anyone willing to shorten my forestay for me for some money or alcohol (born slippy ;))?
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist hopes it will change; the realist adjusts the sail

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roland_trim

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 12:55:33 PM »
Always happy to help. pm Me?

Offline Torchy

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 01:14:29 PM »
Is jib sheeting angle trial and error or is there any way of analysing the slot on dry land?
Previously 2685 'Loco Perro' and 2345 'Tachyon'

Offline PaulJ

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2012, 01:22:02 PM »
The 49'ers have a huge advantage when it comes to rig tune. They use all the same kit  so they can do plenty of two boat tuning, and swap equipment to find the fast kit etc. This takes alot of time just sailing along changing one thing at a time, then coming back and doing it again and again, then changing crews to eliminate that variable. Each run could be easily ruined if there is a significant wind speed change or shift. One of the guys at work spent a bit of time in the 49 and says it's the most boring thing on earth two boat tuning, but it works

We are currently working hard on getting Ronin tuned, we had a good start with the tuning guide from Pete Barton. This gave us the basic mast rakes and rig tension. We have recently changed the rig from a prebent rig to a straight rig so are starting from scratch again.

The first thing to get sorted is the rake, this determines the power that the rig developes, generally the more upright the rig is the more power it produces (so upright in light conditions), as you rake the mast back it depowers the rig (stronger winds). Rake impacts on the balance of the boat significantly and produces more weather helm as you rake it back. Getting the right rake is a feel thing, if you are fighting the boat and have tried the usual depowering methods, cunningham and kicker etc. try more rake. Rig tension is the next item. We use a reasonably high rig tension 400lbs plus on the shrouds (30-31 loos gauge). If you don't have enough rig tension two things happen, the forestay sags off to leeward which impacts the boats pointing ability, secondly the windward shroud goes stack which allows the leeward spreader to push the mast to windward which is bad, as it opens the slot and effects the mainsail set effecting both power and pointing ability. Lowers tension is next, tight lowers powers up the lower 1/3 of the mainsail, so ease them a bit if it's windy, this is nearly automatic though if you rake the rig back a hole. We actually tighten our lowers when we rake otherwise it flattens the sails too much. Uppers too little tension and you loose power in light and medium winds as the top of the mast isn't being supported sideways, but if they are too tight the top of the mast isn't allowed to flex enough to act as an automatic gust response. When it's windy we only use enough tension to keep mast in the boat down wind again to gain maximum gust response upwind and to allow the top of the main to blade off.

The key to rig tuning is calibration and therefore repeatability, if you don't know which rig setting was working or not working you can't reproduce it or avoid it, so get the tape measure and rig gauge out and write down where everything is now before changing a thing. Have fun :-)
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Offline Torchy

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2012, 01:25:55 PM »
Useful Paul, ta
Previously 2685 'Loco Perro' and 2345 'Tachyon'

Offline Torchy

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2012, 09:31:13 AM »
T- foils...what is their main benefit?

Promoting planing?

Adding stability?
Previously 2685 'Loco Perro' and 2345 'Tachyon'

Offline john_hamilton

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 10:10:12 AM »
reducing displacement upwind by taking some of the crew weight from the hull to the t foil, which is more efficient than the hull i think
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist hopes it will change; the realist adjusts the sail

cherub 2645 - cheese before bedtime

roland_trim

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 10:10:18 AM »
and swap equipment to find the fast kit etc.
Good post, but off to bed. Arup skiff hat leaves Blood boiling.

Offline Phil Alderson

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2012, 01:52:47 PM »
One thing I miss from the setup I had on Aqua and Primal was easy to adjust cap shrouds. I currently have a lashing and it is neither repeatable, or adjustable.

My old 14 had a fully adjustable rig, and I learned a lot about setup from that as you could move the rig the wrong way and feel what that did to the boat, so you could learn to recognise the feeling and adjust it out.

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Offline Torchy

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2012, 02:07:40 PM »
The Larks have (had?) adjustable jib tension. It made a big difference...they left me standing at Barnt Green until they let slip that you needed the opposite tension from what I had been doing...actually I asked and they were very helpful  :)

Will give one of them a call and see what they say. I am thinking of temporarily rigging my boat breaker across the foredeck and playing with jib tension on the move. If it works it could be rigged under the foredeck with mini-blocks to the crew's next to the spinnaker halyard and using a similar system to the kite halyard it would be quick to trip downwind and yank on upwind...maybe.
Previously 2685 'Loco Perro' and 2345 'Tachyon'

Offline Torchy

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2012, 02:26:00 PM »
Just confirmed with an ex-Lark luminary.

It adjusts the slot (as I had surmised) and it's essentially tight upwind (tuned to maximise performance), loose downwind.

What I recalled as being the reverse logic (in Larks) was that in windy weather they (he) used to ease it off, upwind or down and (I think) they had it really tight upwind even in light stuff.

In a Cherub we'd just need to experiment...hours of fun 2 boat tuning?...which for some reason gets Born Slippy off on one  :) or is it the 'gear swapping'?
Previously 2685 'Loco Perro' and 2345 'Tachyon'

Offline Torchy

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2012, 02:46:15 PM »
Larks use 16:1 purchase
Previously 2685 'Loco Perro' and 2345 'Tachyon'

Offline john_hamilton

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Re: Boat tuning
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2012, 05:09:14 PM »
its the gear swapping
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist hopes it will change; the realist adjusts the sail

cherub 2645 - cheese before bedtime