UK-Cherub Forum
Cherub Chat => Sailing Stories => Topic started by: Will_Lee on June 30, 2008, 09:04:45 AM
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Dear All,
Cherub number 2699, 'The Antidote To Panel Games', got wet for the first time yesterday!
The place was Stokes Bay, and on the beach was designer Kevin Ellway.
It was 12knots which quickly built to 20+knots, and we burned up and down on the lumpy sea with triangular waves. We are really pleased with both the similarities to our previous Cherub 'Atum Bom', and the important differences: The boat is flatter underneath, has a much finer entry and has new ideas incorporated into the foils, but the rig and deck layout are very similar to Atum's.
Kevin's partner's father took the photos, and we had our Velocitek SC-1 aboard so we hope for a GPS track, once I can make it all work!
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Congratulations!
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Well done
Can't wait for pictures.
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How did it feel to sail?
Is it tippier, more nosey, smoother to accelerate than Atum?
Are there any photo's on the site?
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It was probably easier in the waves, as there was less tendency to decelerate suddenly probably due to the fine bow.
It also seemed to be much better mannered on the tacks, which may be due to any number of things.
There were a few things that we will have to get used to (tipped us in on a bear-away which hasn't happened in ages!) and the ropes were all a bit long so tended to get tangled.
We were pleased that it showed no signs of nose diving, despite extreme provocation in the form of power boats at displacement speed....
All in all, a big hit and we are looking forward to getting to grips with the extra gears.
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this thread needs PICTURES!
PS... I took my boat to see some water over the weekend too. It got scared and ran away. Mind... it may have been the scum bag that was trying to nick stuff from the changing rooms and then the brandishing of an offensive weapon at a member of the club and then the involvement of it's helm that scared it. LOL.
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OK - Here is the GPS track (http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub/GPSAR/gpsar.php?filename=2699-20080629.gpx&maps=maps/stokes.maps).
No faster than Atum on the first sail, but pitching less, even better mannered at low speeds, and even more tolerant of lumpy water - it is all officially worthwhile as there is more to come!
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Here's some pics, but from before sailing:
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Hey well done Lee's collective - she look's the mutt's nut's!
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Can't wait to see her on the water. She looks fantastic.CONGRATULATIONS!
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All those late nights, carbon itchyness, epoxy stickyness and putting up with Will's over active arse was all worth it then! Where are you going to be sailing from then?
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Nice work on the boat congrats.
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Went sailing at Queen Mary this evening. Andy Peters and Jill had a go in Antidote.
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This one from Stokes on Sunday. It was windy!
Thanks to Jo Evans' Dad for taking the pic.
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Looks amazing.
I definitely want one now!
I'm sure a closer look will reveal a lot of The Lee's Concepts (TLC for short).
Sunday was windy in Wales where we were trying to sail the ent. We normally don't have a problem in strong winds but when it was hovering around 30knots we couldn't really go upwind so well and the boat was all over the place down wind. Not enough weight at the back to stop the bow digging in. When we were upright we were definitely 2 knots faster than everything else. That was trying to stop either gunnel getting in the water as we went over the quartering seas.
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does look good but with those big yachties around the cherub looks tiny (even more so than normal)
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Sailing at Whitstable at the weekend:
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A huge thanks to Will, Lucy and Ross this weekend it was great to catch up. And to use Deans phrase "Antidote is sexy" . It was a shame the wind died , but a great way to spend a sunday.
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Looks awesome and I really like the orange colour. But why the name?
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Humphrey Lyttleton died suddenly earlier this year. He was a very famous jazz musician and, late in his career (!) in the 1970's started hosting a ridiculous show on the radio called "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" which is a lot like 'Never Mind The Buzzcocks", (chairman, panellists, questions which only really serve as excuses for humour from the panel, etc etc).
The show was introduced as "the antidote to panel games", because although it seems like a panel game, and there are frequent mentions of points, prizes, etc etc, in fact none are awarded: The whole show is Humph giving comedians silly things to do. These include Mornington Cresent (had the boat been a different colour it could have been called that), One Song To The Tune Of Another (imagine "I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts" to the tune of "There'll be a welcome in the hillside" and you get the idea).
Humph made the show as he was able to get really really fruity double entendre across in an innocent-seeming way (at 6.30pm on Radio 4). Now Humph is gone it seems unlikely that the show can continue.
The boat's name is our own tiny homage to Humph. He has been part of our lives (on and off) for decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'm_Sorry_I_Haven't_A_Clue
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Here's one which is just of Antidote's and Loco's mains - but you can see the bow of Antidote in the background - pointy!
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Have you posted the picture you intended to?
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if so. It is very pointy!
So pointy it is no wider than the pole :)
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Good spot!
Here is the proper one:
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Yes the bow is very pointy even when not hiding behind the spinnaker pole.
You can clearly see where the area that has been taken out of the main and transfered into the jib. It looks as if they took the LOCO design and drew a line from the top batten to the head and the clew and got the scisors out. I hope it ws a bit more technical than that. Your top batten must be nearly 2m long!
After we broke one at dracote I've wondered how much load goes into these battens.
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That looks like a pretty big jib, but it might just be the foreshortening of the photo. Can I ask what your main/jib area distribution is, or is that a "need to know" bit of information? Boom looks quite high too.
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"You can clearly see where the area that has been taken out of the main and transfered into the jib. It looks as if they took the LOCO design and drew a line from the top batten to the head and the clew and got the scisors out. I hope it ws a bit more technical than that. Your top batten must be nearly 2m long!
After we broke one at dracote I've wondered how much load goes into these battens. "
Fyfe initially wanted to produce my sails with a head the same length as the boom and the batten end above the mast head. At the time I didnt want some thing that extreme but it might well be what u do on a second generation rig.
Will did u go for full area with this rig?
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Fyfe initially wanted to produce my sails with a head the same length as the boom and the batten end above the mast head. At the time I didnt want some thing that extreme but it might well be what u do on a second generation rig.
Just watch out for:
4.2.4 Sail Height: The vertical distance from the lowest point of the
hull to the mast step plus the distance from the bottom of the mast to the
top of a measurement band, above which no sail shall be set, shall be
no more than 7.1m.
if you are designing an extreme rig.
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I guess this depends on how you define where the sail is set.
Is the sail set from the mast?
Or is the sail set from the batten?
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I expect the rules have been drafted with the intention that no part of the sail shall extend above the black band at 7.1m. If this is so is this in all sail trims or a prescribed amount of kicker, cunningham and main sheet tension? I assume the measurement is made perpendicular to the baseline of the hull. Depending the the amount of pre bend in the rig and many other factors the measurement will not be perpendicular to the mast.
How is this measured accurately? have we found 2 walls built exactly 7.1m appart between which we can lie the boats?
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It may be what the rule intended. But it's not necessarily what the rule says.
If there is a disagreement over the wording of the rule, I'm not sure who adjudicates. The measurement officer?
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I expect the rules have been drafted with the intention that no part of the sail shall extend above the black band at 7.1m. If this is so is this in all sail trims or a prescribed amount of kicker, cunningham and main sheet tension? I assume the measurement is made perpendicular to the baseline of the hull. Depending the the amount of pre bend in the rig and many other factors the measurement will not be perpendicular to the mast.
How is this measured accurately? have we found 2 walls built exactly 7.1m appart between which we can lie the boats?
If I remember correctly when we were considering this rule ( in one of our comfortable motorway service station committee meetings! I hope they have improved now! ) It was the intention that the masts length be measured off the boat ( so no rake was included ) and added to the the other distances. This meant for all practical purposes measuring the depth of the case and then from the floor to the mast step position ( if the mast was deck stepped or stumped ) and adding together to a max of 7.1m And yes the intention was not to have battens protruding above the black band. Patrick should be aware of this as he was part of the committee, working with Simon Gavin as Technical Officer / Measurement Officer.
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It may be what the rule intended. But it's not necessarily what the rule says.
If there is a disagreement over the wording of the rule, I'm not sure who adjudicates. The measurement officer?
3.5 Interpretation
The CHERUB is a development class and these rules may
not cover every eventuality. In cases where doubt exists,
account should be taken of the intentions and spirit of
the rules and the matter should be referred to the
Technical Officer and Association Committee.
It is all in the rules.
4.2.4 Sail Height: The vertical distance from the
lowest point of the hull to the mast step plus the distance
from the bottom of the mast to the top of a measurement
band, above which no sail shall be set, shall be no more
than 7.1m.
The interpretation of this rule has to be that the sails are not allowed to go above the measurement band anything other would make the rule pointless. The wording of the rule I think makes this clear.
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You're quite right. I was just playing devil's advocate.
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Will and Lucy came to Stokes this week. As usual, when they arrived, so did the wind and the waves - big wind over tide.
Undeterred, the duo set off under the watchful eyes of Russ and Penny Clark. Penny is our Laser Radial Olympic representative - good luck Penny. I hope you all check out her progress. She's worked really hard, likes Cherubs, and just bought a Bladerider - top girl.
Anyway, Russ shot some excellent footage which I've put on YouTube. Here are the links
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrOQOCSKh6E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrOQOCSKh6E)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAF4c5qjFMA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAF4c5qjFMA)
As the designer, I am pretty pleased with the boat as it appears to behave very much as the math models predicted. I really like that Fyfe main. Check out the small twist in the upwind footage. That was with mega kicker and cunningham.
Jo and I also got to sail it on Friday. Unfortunately, I snapped Will's tiller off, but in the short time of sailing in around 13 knots, it feels more like the SK4 than Beans.
Anyway, I hope you enjoy the footage.
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The Lee's are to grips with the new boat in an uncomfortably short amount time. Is there a GPS track? Was it maxed out or did you feel that there was still more speed tucked away beneath that orange exterior?
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The footage was towards the end of a long on the water session with coaching from the rib. During this time, significant changes were made to the rig set up (loads more kicker) and the T foil - use less. Each time, measurable improvements in speed occurred.
I think there is still some work to do on the jib sheeting, which may give more height at no loss of speed. Since the predicted upwind speed in waves was 11.2-11.5kts in waves at 23 deg awa and that was very similar to that measured, I doubt if the boat will go much quicker uphill, except that is, in flat water. You are limited by leverage. That said, that's a bit quicker than a 49er, but I suspect at a lower angle.
Downhill, I think there is still a lot to come. The boat should be capable of around 25kts in about as much wind. It's all abut trim angle.
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erm? WOW
got to see the boat in action methinks
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The boat looks fantastic and is quick even in yesterday's lighter stuff and points well. Evidentially they overtook RS700 off wind in saturday's f3 breeze surprising the 700 sailor who felt he should be faster. Our handicap must be in tatters by now.
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Phil,
It was a tight reach that Will overtook me on. Not quite enough breeze to pick up my 85kg !!
The Ellway 5 is definately quick though and had me worried in the last race on Sunday. I won by only 5secs !
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Well I remember at last years nationals talking with Tom Kiddle while watching the GPS tracks.
Tom and I apeared to be roughly the same speed half a Knot here half a Knot there upwind. Atom was a good 2 to 3 knots faster. Tom agreed it would be very difficult to get that extra speed, but with a lot of effort I think we have managed it in Shiny. There is just one problem our Aunty Anti has got a turbo powered zimmer. DOH!
As I have said before Anti looks like the best 2 person boat I have seen for a very long time (in any class)
and it is a Cherub. How cool is that.